politician to have to deal with. >> and that was going back to this point where people hear just how big the problems are, people hear about fiscal cliffs, people hear about debt and deficits and they don't see any type of collaboration as to how we're actually going to solve these things. when we fundamentally break it down from past the 30,000 foot level and we actually drill into what's happening inside the lives of so many people around this country, that is where this amazing disconnect comes from and where we'll see the ramifications from that disconnect come november as well. >> you all would know much better than i would -- >> well, marc would. >> that's a good point. >> the whole thing is this is about a campaign. it's 270 electoral votes. this is not a public policy seminar. what are they hearing and seeing in their research that makes it play it safe approach -- >> i think this goes to one of the things wes says. this the fiscal cliff is there. this is one of the things that is most fascinating about the