necessarily sexy aren't going to be -- >> for example? >> for example, microcredit has gotten fancy over the years, but it hasn't necessarily lifted people out of poverty. >> transformive. >> exactly. >> what is? >> staying in that area, helping people get active in bank accounts, and particularly bank accounts that take care of their own frailties, about how we make presumptions between savings. it gives women more power in the household and to achieve more goals that they have. >> i imagine you have a litany of examples. that's why one writes a book. at the end of the day, the decision to whether we go with the emotional drive to act or the emotional impulse to act and whether we're able to convert