a symbolic fight. he's tried to sneak it in. >> it's hard for mitt romney because people don't know -- there is a narrative where people don't know what he really believes. >> i would say, mark, also, there were a lot of conservatives -- read the "wall street journal" editorial page basically saying that mitt romney's only chance would be to distance himself from his health care plan in massachusetts. and he hasn't, he's defended it. he says it's not the one size fit all model for the country, but he says it worked in massachusetts. that is not what movement conservatives and free-market conservatives are pushing romney to do. i think there are examples of him not just toeing the line as that line moves further and further to the right. >> if he were to distance himself, wouldn't people say, look, he'll do anything for political advantage. >> look, that's a separate issue. i'm simply -- under your argument, every one of these politicians is getting moved to the right. whether principle lies there or not. i'm simply saying, there are