>> okay. jay carney, the spokesman for the president -- the press secretary say it ends medicare as we know it. is that your view, mr. cummings? >> yes, it is. and, you know, i listen to my colleague, i have to be very frank with you, i'm appalled. i think it's very unfortunate that while they are destroying medicare, they're giving tax breaks and subsiies to the oil companies and certainly giving tax breaks to millionaires on the backs of our seniors. come on, now. you give somebody a $15,000 voucher to buy health insurance. you know, chris, somebody say 65 years old with a heart condition, high blood pressure, and diabetes, who's going to insure them? think about it. and when that -- that premium does not cover their insurance, they're just out of luck. and so -- >> respond to that, mr. lundgren. that's a good charge.