our generation has had. so i would disagree with your proposal because the system works because we all pull together. we're not all in separate boats. and we've really raised a whole generation of seniors out of poverty because of social security and medicare. >> let me play hardball with you, congresswoman kaptur. here's a question for you. of all the domestic programs we have in our government, we have a $1.6 trillion deficit now, of all the domestic programs we have right now, name some big-ticket items you'd like to cut. >> all right. in terms of the discretionary programs and the mandatory programs, i would look at agricultural subsidies as an area that's very rich for change. i would also look at our defense bases around the world. defense is not on the table, in fact. >> domestic. >> mr. cole's party actually -- we have a lot of bases in this country as well. finally, the president's bipartisan commission talks about both spending cuts as well as revenues. i would look at the americans who have done extraordinarily well. >> so raise taxes?