they charge this operation and we don't trust them, how will we know what happened? >> i'm not convinced we ever will know exactly what happened but if it turns out there is enough proof the saudis did it they should pay a price but not the larger price, to go ahead and push aside mohammed bin selman. if this was his order, this -- i'm not convinced it was but even if it was this is not something that outweighs the alliance we formed with them, they are helping us against iran, to stop extremism, funding a lot of the bad guys in saudi arabia. we need to make them understand this is not something you can do but we are not going to blow up an important alliance over this. rob: assuming this is not a conspiracy by the turks, that they didn't send in a fit -- a hit squad. what of the optics of the president denying what seems to be a lot of evidence in his face about this? a lot of people are criticizing but he always seems to defend

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