with it. unless they have to pay for it. >> i have been. i appreciate you saying i have been. this is something that hurt hillary clinton incredibly, that she talked in practical terms instead of i would love it if we could have medical for all. but the truth is, we have to have a private and a public option to make sure that everybody needs care can get it so we don't have the ballooning costs. we don't ride a unicorn around and -- >> neil: and harlan, i'll pick up with you. when he was running for president, he had to propose a tax hike that would extend to the middle class because you can argue about even those numbers would answer the promises. but he didn't just saddle the rich. he didn't saddle companies. he crunched some of the numbers and said this is my view of the world. i think it should be a much more actively government involved view. i'm going to pay for it and you, americans, are going to pay for