nothing there, they're fighting perhaps an appearance to have the president sit down with him. what do you make of the tougher line? >> i think it's the right way to go because what you do need with these special council as we mentioned in the last segment is they have a tendency to go off reservation. and if the targets or the people that they're interacting with don't push back some, then there really is no restraint anywhere. from a tactical standpoint, that's the right way to go. i'm not sure about the decision to sit down with mueller. i believe the legal team is of the thought that until that happens, this probe doesn't end and that they feel they should in order to hasten its end. i believe there's legal peril for the president in sitting down, potentially being led off and entrapped into perjurying himself. >> paul: rudy guliani said he heard from the mueller camp that mueller concluded he cannot