and that was a huge loss that i think is going to impact media for years to come. decades to come. >> no question. listen, what i was trying to say to folks is we're running for president of the united states, there are huge issues to discuss and not to get into a back and forth, it wasn't an interview, it was a debate they were supposed to be moderating. ask a question, let us give an answer that's fair and have the discretion to follow-up if they wanted to but not in the middle of the question, not with snarky bias-filled responses. and that's what happened. their biased showed. >> the day you announced, a lot of people were jealous i got the first interviews. you just announced you're running for president. i asked you hard questions about immigration and drivers' licenses for illegals and all that. i did my homework. i felt after you announce, i want you to lay out your vision. you want to be the president, you want the most important job in the world. does that happen less and less now? do these -- do you think these moderators feel it's their job to debate you? >> everybody wants to be woodward and bernstein.