and this is my fourth trip to syria. >> did you meet assad before? >> yes. >> how do you assess him as a human being? >> thoughtful, someone who is an intellectual. he's been very consistent in any discussions that i've ever had with him. >> consistent about what? >> about his commitment to a secular syria. he's someone who believes for example that christians have rights, that women have rights, and that's in the constitution that was passed in 2012. >> you kind of paint him as a good guy. >> well, this whole discussion isn't about good guys or bad guys it's about people. in extraordinary circumstances. tremendous tragedy in syria right now, affecting people from one end of the country to the other. and so he happens to be the president right now. >> and he's doing bad things, right? >> you know what? the army, i pressed him on this. greg pelka did a terrific job. we both pressed him on the fact that the syrian people are suffering and that people are