but this is the most complex, confusing case. everybody is testifying against everybody else. not only the criminals but rakes and john connally, a former agent in boston. this is a mess. >> you mentioned the twists and turns and it's not one that hat gotten the kind of attention other high profile cases have gotten in trials at this point. tell us about whitey bulgar, about what he has meant over the years to the fbi, finally getting him, and are we going to see a conviction, do you think? >> i suspect we will see a conviction in this case, but over the years, whitey bulgar, of course being a member of the winter hills bang in boston and this whole affair with the rakes, taking over his liquor store in south boston, and rakes says it was not for sale, and then bulgar says it was for sale. i think one of the reasons rakes