consequences throughout the rest of the -- >> let's zero in on this verification. refusal to the -- enforce the verification. if you apply for it they will not check your income to see if you qualify until somehow later. they may get around to it. what are the implications of that? >> i think it will lead to a lot of fraud. they are just trying to get people to cram in here and even if they are not eligible for the cities. if you look at something like the earned income tax credit, about 21% to 25% of those payments are made to people who don't actually qualify for them legally if you are looking at the affordable care act that's $250 billion problem. >> if it is on that scale of -- >> if it was the same fraud. >> kim, so what's the motive here, political motive here for the administration to do this -- wave these verification rules? >> they want to get as many people in the system and hooked on these subsidies as they can. they think that's what's going