sentence for a fraud count is the so-called amount of the fraud. in this case, the prosecutors essentially put restrictions on what the family could do, such that the meat processing plant went bankrupt. when that happened that is correct drove up the fraud because there were no funds left to pay off the banks, and that's the key to the government initially keek seeking a life sentence in this case. >> a life sentence? >> they backed down on that because of a whole host of former attorneys generals and solicitors generals objected. but they asked for 25 years and the judge gave 27 years. >> first-time offender. >> wow. not surprising, given that you learned and you learn that the judge, against all precedence, had been in close contact with the prosecution in this case? >> yeah. after mr. rubashkin was sentenced, it showed that the