can't single out a person for assassination. let's deal in the real world. if they have our people, they'll use anything they can to get information out of them. why do we have to be the set aside good guy? why are we the only ones? >> because we're not them. it's limited. it's done on -- but it's done on a limited basis. it's in a controlled atmosphere. do it -- they're not killing th . they're making them uncomfortable. very uncomfortable and i say don't take this off the table. we are not terrorists. we are not them. george washington and abraham lincoln both were against torture and i got to tell you, the revolutionary war and the civil war were a lot more threatening to the united states. i can't let go of the idea that somehow waterboarding khalid sheik muhammad led to this courier. let's recall what happened. the guy that told us the courier was not waterboarded. we found out in 2007. >> i don't want to get mired down in names of all these people. i have to give david the final word before we wrap up. >> here's the reality -- here's the reality, gretchen.