>> you were, when i first met you and doing the abc show, not nearly as liberal as you are today. how did that happen? >> well, the -- the country changed. >> you didn't change. the country changed. >> basically, yes. i mean, at some point in the last 20 years, the left moved to the center and the right moved into a mental institution. i mean, there used to be ideological differences that were understandable and there used to be moderate republicans. that has gone away. i mean, the republican party now is just a bunch of religious lunatics, flat earthers and civil war re-enactors so i don't think it was me that changed so much. >> ok, you're in with the all american crew like michael moore and these guys who just love their country and come on, look. if you can't see the extremism on both sides, i'm flabbergasted. >> there really isn't extremism on both sides. that's a kenard. there's not that much extremism.