and freddie so we have to give them more power? no. we have enough laws. we have laws against fraud. if you just let them fail, they can't be gangsters. they are only gangsters because government gives them our money. >> bill: okay. here is where you are making your tragic mistake. there aren't enough laws because they have outgunned the laws. and they say now, it's very complicated. i talked to karl rove about this a few days ago. and i said to him, look, isn't it true that the bush administration didn't watch these people on wall street enough? and then they ran wild with these derivatives. i don't understand. but, basically, it's -- there are no -- or there were no standards of behavior that you could invent paper. you could invent it. a broker could call you up and say hey, john, i get you 8% interest if you just buy this piece of paper which is a mortgage that was sold three times and we finally got it. and now it's worth% on paper. there has got to be rules against that kind of nonsense because it's a ponzi scheme. >> but we have rules against