right? and what was don junior say, if it's what you say, i love it, no question. but the evidence in the report is they had the meeting, and that information was not offered. so if -- >> i'm sorry, michael, so if i decide -- if i'm insider trading and somebody says hey, i'm going to give you information about something that's going to go public in two days, and i'm like yeah, let's get in this, i mean, that's a conspiracy. if we move forward that, even if it doesn't come to fruition, it's still wrong. >> it was wrong and questionably improper, but can you make a criminal case that something of value changed hands? >> his question was -- >> that's what mueller was doing. he was the special prosecutor to investigate crimes. right? and he as the prosecutor he concluded he could not make a criminal case out of that meeting or any of the other

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