it betrays our principles. so why would you persist in it? to me, that's always been the real scandal. the fact that, you know, it was flagged to him that petraeus disagreed with him and he still met with him, fine. that's actually -- it's going to meet with the people you disagree with. but what it never seemed to do is make him think, wait, david petraeus knows a hell of a lot more about this subject than i do. maybe i should rethink my position. he still to this day has never renounced that view that the united states military should engage in torture. just think about that, in violation of geneva convention. we have a president who actively asserts and endorses that view. >> let's talk about more vetting documents here because chris ka