for instance, having these militias attack forces in iraq and afghanistan. the pentagon knows that. i suspect that was part of the idea to be reticent before this. >> admiral, we don't have a permanent defense secretary. is the department of defense such a big juggernaut it can do all this and doesn't need a defense sec stair right now? >> no. of course we need a defense secretary. a senate confirmed cabinet official that can have the influence and ear of the president. inside the institution too. i mean, one of the reasons why there's so many vacancies at the pentagon is nobody wants to work for an organization when they don't know who the boss is going to be from month to month. it matters strategically. did it matter tactically yesterday? i'm not so sure. you've got a very competent general dunford. you're not going to find a more sober serious officer. and both mr. esper and mr. shanahan, the incoming and