is strongest when the grand jury is seeking information from a president. that's where the most precedent is, and that would be the most likely way to get him under oath. so i think the chairman is making a very good point that a special counsel on behalf of the grand jury could force this issue. much more easy than the house or the senate or any other body that would likely look at this. so it's a point well taken. i'm not sure the game is over yet, though. i'm not sure that the special counsel won't. >> that is an interesting takeaway from this conversation. thank you all very much. and don't miss john dean, brand-new cnn original series coming up this weekend. his historic testimony during watergate featured in tricky dick, which airs sunday night at 9:00 on cnn. and "outfront" next, the former owner of a spa linked to the bob kraft prostitution allegations reportedly has ties to president trump and chinese executives. this is like, are we living this a spy thriller?