hyperbole, clearly, an applause line at rallies. >> it was actually a line on a website that nobody was applauding for. >> right. but that's not from him. >> there it is. >> look, i don't think any serious -- i don't think any serious person believed that mexico was going to hand us a gigantic check with "wall" in the memo. you don't pay for the wall up-front. >> you don't think thousands of people who heard him say and who themselves chanted "mexico is going to pay for it" and read that website in which he says it will be a one-time payment, you think people just don't think that he is making it up? >> i think that -- i think that americans whether they're border patrol agents, whether they're people all across america who care about our sovereignty, i think they want, first of all, border security. secondly, it does make sense for mexico to pay. i think it's fair and just that they pay. whether they pay up front or over time, to me doesn't make very much difference. >> kerstin? to you, does it seem that the president has just lied about this? and today lied about lying about it? >> yeah, i just don't understand, steve, you're