>> van, i'll ask you the same question i asked michael. does the president bad mouthing people who were his -- in his cabinet when they leave for a variety of reasons, does that hurt or does that make other people not want to put themselves in that gauntlet? >> yes. the answer is yes. i just think it's remarkable. michael and i are friends and i respect him a great deal. but sometimes i feel like i'm in this 1984 novel where you're supposed to kind of unthink certain things. now mattis is just like hillary clinton boob and who cares about him. i can remember you sticking up for mattis and others in the trump administration -- >> i love mattis. >> you just threw him under the bus. >> i'm saying he's not, he's not saint francis of acee assisi. hoog he's a mull military