whether it's concrete or whether it's slats. it's the idea that you could actually wall off immigrants, that it might not work, it would be very expensive and sends the wrong signal. that would be their position. but i'm trying to understand who the president is arguing with. i think he rejects the idea that he had abandoned an idea of his. he doesn't like the idea that the base would see him as retreating. but in fact, my understanding, not just from that john kelly interview, is that absolutely, the concept of what he wanted on the campaign trail changed when he actually talked to the officials who would be administering protection at any sort of a barrier. >> all right, brian, speaking of that article that was written by molly o'toole from the "l.a. times," i actually talked to her earlier today and he talked about trump and how in many ways, john kelly is navigating the president's words in terms of rhetoric versus relate. take a listen to what molly had to say earlier today. >> early on in kelly's tenure at homeland security, he asked the people on the ground, who are