that has always been the kind of country that we've been. our attorney general, on the other hand, seems hell bent on closing off every possible avenue of humanitarian relief. he's reaching down for every single immigration court decision that he can to really close off those options of lawful relief. people are trying to follow the law, claim asylum in a lawful manner. and our government is closing off every option for those folks. >> paul, the president has talked about -- the president has talked about cutting aid or stopping aid to countries like el salvador, guatemala if they can't control people from leaving and heading north. i've talked to a lot of people who were involved in immigration issues on the front line. the exact opposite would happen. it would be more cost-effective to try to prevent people from leaving by developing programs that encourage people to stay and make -- help keep them safe. >> sure. >> and have opportunities in the countries of their origin.