leaking this story, saying they are trying to trap the president with some sort of perjury charge. that doesn't make sense because obviously if the special counsel was trying to trap the president in some sort of perjury charge, they won't put out there don mcgahn had met with him for 30 hours. they would interview the president and compare what he said to what don mcgahn said. if anything this news helps them because it allows them to prepare the president if he is going to sit down with mueller, what toe say to say and not to say. >> perry, is the truth the truth or the truth not the truth this monday morning? >> i hope the truth is the truth but i think the reality is, giuliani is trying to build a case for trump to not testify. and we've been talking since december it's clear trump does not want to testify. all of this is a pred katd side to the president refusing -- some sort of testimony because this is what giuliani trying to