were every other president. when i talk to folks outside of the washington bubble and they hear about these fact checks and the 22 lies in trump's latest press conference, they disregard it. the media doesn't have any credibility with them. having worked with politifact -- >> do we not cover what he said? >> hold him responsible. >> doug is saying that makes it worse. >> it's different. it's hoellding him at his level. you cannot take a bully and allow him to bully you. we cannot do -- the idea of being factual and stoic is not working. why it doesn't work is because the people he appeals to -- >> i disagree. the press conference on friday was a really, really good example of how this does work. you saw reporters -- >> that's great. >> in real time. you saw them following up.