a witness, or a potential witness, or a subject as they can accumulate before they actually talk to the person they are interviewing. that gives them the ability to assess the truthfulness, to follow up on leads and information they do have and they don't know the answer to, so, yes, it -- and this means that they're getting closer and closer to the president himself. >> you're shaking your head in agreement, james, why? >> i am, i mean, that's normally the course the way you would do it. the only thing that troubles me and i've had a number of people say to me that a lot of this right now are -- you got two individuals, manafort and one of his associates that pled guilty to conspiracy, shady business dealings. it didn't connect necessarily to donald trump. the second piece of those were two ancillary process crimes and those were lying to an fbi agent. and that was george papadopoulos and general michael flynn last week, pleading guilty to title 18 of the united states code, 1,0001. a false and misleading statement. again, mueller didn't have them plead out to an underlying scheme. generally speaking, you don't want your cornerstone plea to be lying.