equals four, well, not as -- some people may interpret that as one way and some people call it old math and others call it new math -- >> don, if you interview people from san francisco -- >> that's how you sound. >> if you're going to interview people from san francisco and weigh them heavier than people, say, from nebraska or a swing state like pennsylvania, north carolina, ohio, or wisconsin -- >> a lie doesn't matter where you're from. so a lie's not the same -- a lie is not the same in the south as it is -- but go on. >> the poll in reality, you can't just rely on that. what i do -- i mean, you would agree with me that the american people were solidly behind bill clinton when we were at war in kosovo and bosnia. and yet, he did not have a sterling reputation for telling the truth all the time. could we agree on that? >> okay. phil? >> let me be simple here. this ain't about the president. it's about his cabinet.