paul manafort, carter page. is that -- are you hearing anything that that's a concern for people in the white house? >> no, look, the more sort of ancillary the circle gets, the harder it gets to control. also roger stone has this lengthy relationship with president trump who is going, at some point, going to be appearing. his testimony was canceled. i think that they are in general concerned not just about the fact of what could be said because i think that when you talk to them, they insist there won't be anything there. but there is a concern about the closed door nature of these appearances so far and that there's no transcript provided. so what leaks out from what's said behind closed doors which can set the tone going forward in terms of public opinion. >> and andirsersoanderson, we as on these witnesses. which witness came in, which witness spoke? these cases are almost always won or lost or broken or not broken on documents. on e-mails, on any sort of --