the island. >> anthony: so if this becomes a protected sanctuary what are you going to do for a living? >> carl: yeah, so you have to go -- >> anthony: further out. >> carl: -- further out to sea for deep-sea fishing. >> anthony: that means more gas. >> carl: more gas, less fish. so it's a strain, right? >> anthony: is there a future for the traditional fishing industry in jamaica or do you think, like every place else in the caribbean, is it going to end up an entirely tourist economy? >> anthony: this is -- >> carl: but what is happening now -- >> anthony: i keep -- here's what i'm kind of getting at. rich people want to live what they see as a simple life. in their minds, they want to live the life of a jamaican fisherman. they want to live the life of somebody who doesn't have a lot of money, but the people who actually do that now are giving up their living and essentially entering the tourist sector. there's a certain amount of weird irony at work here. who gets to live in paradise? >> carl: nobody because guess what --