somewhere. >> which raises then -- you mentioned his wife, rest of the family. the question that's been -- so many of us have been asking, did the other members of his family know about this? >> i started out from the position of -- let's see if there is any evidence. honestly i could not find any evidence. not just any credible evidence. could not find any evidence that they knew and there were very compelling reasons to think that they did not know. >> there were other guilty parties. bernie madoff pointed the fingers at the banks. do you buy that? >> bernie did not originally point his finger at the banks. when i spoke with him in august i specifically said -- question number two, who else knew? question number one was when did it start? i don't think he answered either of those questions. >> a good ten years earlier than he said. >> who else knew? at that time he said well, maybe jeffrey, palm beach investor, secretive private man. he might have known. he had to know.