sons, perhaps the intelligence apparatus. perhaps the army. it's probably some kind of combination of all those things. but it highlights the problem which is it's not clear that anyone is really in charge in libya. the whole country is run but a very clannish way. that's why so much of the government, ambassadors, ministers are spinning off defecting left right and center. >> they are. >> and what is likely to happen is fairly chaotic in the aftermath of gadhafi's leaving. still, it shouldn't deter us from pushing ahead because no matter what what happens afterwards, it's probably not worse than the chaos and blood shed and mayhem that moammar gadhafi has inflicted on his own people and also, people in other countries. >> so a post-gadhafi libya or whatever it may become your saying is better than what we've seen for the last 42 years. fascinating conversation. interesting you sat with him a couple years ago. thank you. >> thank you, brooke. did the u.s. military try to

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