when the only thing at that level of the pyramid they need to do is nail that credit card debt. >> there are very few investments that you can get that will get you the return of paying down your debt that, as you said, you might be paying 19% for. >> yeah. >> after you've handled cash flow and after you've handled debt, then and only then do you start thinking about the next level, savings. >> 10% of your gross income. a lot of people say, bruce, all of this is so complicated. how do i keep track of it all. there's so much to think about. there isn't. save 10%. are you doing that? yes or no. i do these call-in shows and people ask me all sorts of questions. i take them through the priority pyramid and i am -- ali, i am ruthless about this. if you focus on this in order, you'll have a way higher probability of getting a handle on your money. >> at some point, you've got to keel with taxes. >> yeah. they're a big chunk. even in america. they are a big chunk of money. you've got to look at ways to offset that. >> now you get to the part that i love the most. >> yeah. >> it takes a while to get there, but then it's about investment. then you really have to do

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