lawsuits be received in the gay community, you think? >> i think they'll constantly go after him because of him being so outspoken against gay rights, gay marriage, gay everything. hopefully i'm hoping it will open up conversations in the church. so leaders will sit down and really have dialogue with their members and allow those men to come out and say this is who i am. i think it starts from the top. >> the clergy you spoke into who are living this double life. what's the reason they give for not living a more open life? >> the bottom line? fear. fear of rejection. fear of loss. fear of acceptance. and that's the bottom line. fear. and when you're under fear, it'll make you do things that you know that's not right. >> j.l., appreciate it. thank you for spending the time with us. still to come, an apology for salmonella-tainted eggs, a hearing underway right now. [ rattling ]