faithful muslims can also be reformers. but what ultimately worries me is that when you talk about christianity being a reformed religion, remember that it took, as you rightly pointed out earlier, a long time for it to get there. but if martin luther's predecessors had fallen for the kind of pessimism that you're talking about, they probably wouldn't have even tried and laid the seed bed for martin luther's ideas to then blossom. >> in those days they were probably told the christians that convert to zlarnlgs which by those standards was a progressive religion. >> they were taught to convert to reason or at least make use of science, reason. people were learning, and people were experimenting. and that has inspired me more than anything else. why not look at science, rational humanism, christianity, judaism, some other -- >> but you're saying the answer's -- i'm not only for answers in the koran. but you are saying there are absolutely no answers in the koran. in fact, i think the dogma is