committed and then there's the religious authority that looks at the whole person. and i think that pedophile priests need to be brought up on the charges in the civil realm and in the pastoral realm they need pastoral care as well. as well as the victims. >> that is true. and, dan, we've got you back on the phone. i'm going to toss this question to you, as well. i just asked francis, you know, how do you balance zero tolerance, a policy of zero tolerance for sex crimes within the church versus the church philosophy of forgiveness and redemption? >> well, as christians and catholics we always have to, you know, have that delicate balance, but in the case of abuse of children, in this case the cover-up of that abuse, there should be no tolerance. there can be no tolerance. >> and francis, you know, if you look at -- let's go outside the church, but if you look at