calculate. part of the problem is that the white house for their own reasons insist on talking about the number of jobs that were either created or saved. here at cnn we're trying to hone in on the number of jobs created. it's hard to do. the other issue, wolf is it's very hard to know what would have happened to the economy if this economy wasn't put in. president obama today at the birthday celebrations said that it saved about 2 million jobs and stopped our economy from going into an abyss. it's very hard to know. you can only extrapolate and project from where we were. most economists say the cycle would have brought us back, we needed help from the government. one thing that's uncertain is where is this is the most effective way to do it, but at the time it was urgent. a lot of people say we would be worse off if the stimulus money were not spent, wolf. >> it's interesting, the way the president phrased that 2 million figure today. he didn't say saved or created. he said 2 million americans are working today because of the economic stimulus package.