Award winning journalist and former tv news executive. She spent 23 years at nbc where she produced Network Political coverage and served as the longtime executive of meet the press with tim russert. She also was the managing editor of nbc news political program. Currently, she is executive director of the women in Politics Institute at American University and a faculty member in their School Public affairs. She also has provided on air analysis to several television networks, including cbs news, msnbc, nbc news and cnn. And shes been included in washingtons best and most influential journalist sites. And gq is powerful people in washington. Thank you all. Its so nice to be in jackson, mississippi. Not too far from my hometown in new orleans, i see an lsu shirt here. Go, tigers, go tigers. And i feel since were the Supreme Court, i feel like these guys are under oath now. So be ready for a really interesting discussion with our. I have no recollection of that. We were here to talk inside washington. The view from washington. Were approaching a big political year, of course, which is already consuming headlines across the country. And well even become more so. And we have great panel here today to talk about that and their books. I want to start just in introduction. Joey garrison on the end is the White House Correspondent for usa today. And he also covered that 2020 president ial race as a National Correspondent based in boston. So thanks for being here, joey. Thank. X next is ben terris, a writer for the Washington Post who has spent years covering politics via the people on the fringe and the Players Behind scenes, in the back rooms, on the hill and at crazy conferences, all of which are featured. He brings this wild group of characters together in his new book. Its called the big break the gamblers party, animals and true believers trying win in washington while america loses its mind. Oh. And then we have jonathan martin, who writes a reported for politico after, spending ten plus years as the National Correspondent at the New York Times. He is the coauthor, along with his colleague alex of the New York Times bestseller that came out last. This will not pass. Trump, biden, the battle for americas future. It is now out in paperback. And i should mention that both ben and, jonathan are going to be signing of their books at 15 in the signing tent. So hope you will come out for that as well. Let me start, jonathan. Yes. Your book, this will not pass. This really isnt passing in many ways. Right. It looks like we may actually have a sequel or a repeat. Sometimes sequels arent necessarily as good as the first one. Are we going to see americas Americas National kidney stone . Yeah. Are we going to see trump biden again . Hows that for a vivid illustration at this hour . First of all, thank you for having back to jackson. Its always a to be in mississippi, especially with this great, great company. And its fine to see so many friends in, the audience. I think today we were as we here in august of 2023, it does appear were likely to have a rematch of the 2020 election between, trump and biden. But ive politics long enough to know that what how things appear in the in the summer before a president ial Campaign Begins doesnt always always hold up and that things do change. And so now one of those people who thinks that this is a done deal, its going to be trump and, biden. We can all sort of take a for the next six, you know, 14 months. I think theres still uncertainty out there as the the great historian Arthur Schlesinger once said, the future our all of our certitude. And i think theres theres all manner of events to take place between now and next year. Some of them to borrow a quote from the other great philosopher, donald rumsfeld. Some of them are known unknowns and others are unknown unknowns. And the known unknowns are most obviously the former faced nearly 100 counts and for four separate jurisdictions next year, thats the biggest no an unknown. How thats going to shake out both in the primary and the general. And then you know other stuff that we dont know whats going to transpire. So i its still early days yet. I just briefly i think there were a lot of democrats who thought joe biden would, in fact, be a bridge as he famously in 2020. Its a pretty long bridge. And they havent gotten to the other side yet as the bridge over pontchartrain. You keep going and going and and one of these days ill be in new orleans and its a hell of a long bridge. I middendorf awaits. So i think, its taken a while and i think we can talk more about this, but i think biden is determined to run for reelection. Its hard to walk from that job even if you are almost 81. Its a job hes wanted for his adult life, so its hard to walk away. And on the republican side, obviously trump is a dominant front runner right now, especially in national surveys. I think its a more competitive race and we can discuss this further in some of the early states. But obviously, he a strong advantage, namely because theres no yet unified opposition him. This was the same path trump had in. He took advantage of a fractured field of 16. And if the party does not rally behind one alternative, he are going into iowa and new hampshire. I hes going to have that same advantage again. He doesnt need 50. 1. He just needs a plurality against fracture field. And let me you. Gambling on politics by the way is prominently featured in this book. If you didnt think you could gamble on politics . You can. So let me ask you if youre in to put a wager on race. What . How do you see it . Shape up in terms of if were going to see versus biden . Sure. Well, for this book, i spent like two years with them kind of a bunch of lunatics. Also a lot of very, very confident people who sure, they knew what was going to happen, like they literally would bet on elections and whether senators come back from a stroke by a certain date, whether legislation was going to pass, it was all very cynical and, kind of awful to watch in a way. And they were so confident and they were almost always, i mean, including on the bets at all. And so i will not be and i never have made bets on politics. And i wouldnt predict whats going to happen. Like a lot of people in washington can get away being wrong all the time and then they suffer no consequences. Kind of shameless. Im filled with shame all the time. I dont any more reasons to feel shame. And so i dont know whats going to happen. You know, i spent a bunch of time in iowa and, you know, its true. Trump might not get the majority. Lot of people are tired of him, but also he might get enough and just run with the whole thing. Well, and you mentioned your trip to iowa, you also did a piece on ron desantis as sort of previewing whats to come maybe next week in the debate, but sort of the awkward. Ron desantis. Give a little summary of the people that related to the awkwardness and the all about. I work at the Washington Post in the feature section and i just published the story. The other day about a Group Americans who can see themselves in ron desantis. They awkward americans. They see themselves in ron and rons awkwardness on the trail but they also hate what they see so awkward. Yeah so you know people been paying attention to the desantis campaign. Theyve seen lots of clips of him not knowing how to talk to children. You know, children, someone drinking an and him saying, oh, that looks like a lot of sugar and not really not really doing the like, oh, whats your favorite flavor and you know and that kind thing or somebody said hi. He said, whats your name . He said, tim. And he said, okay. The kinds things that you dont, you know, you want to be better at that if youre running for president. But i did find a lot of people who saw themselves. A woman told me that watches these videos and she cringes but shes cringing because she sees herself and she told me a story about picking her kid from camp the other day and forgetting i. D. And telling counselor, oh, i can show you my my my scar from from delivery. You are if you want to see it. And and he was like, oh, no. And shes like, oh, no. I was just joking. I was just joking. And shes like, i couldnt thinking about it. Sometimes these can be endearing qualities that will work, you know, for guy. And so people saw themselves, but they they also found him like so unlikable. So relating to somebody and liking somebody, its not always the same thing. And so its not actually a huge advantage to have americans see themselves. But it was a very story. Well, jonathan, youve youve covered. What are your thoughts on how hes going to do this week. Well well first of all i should say i by bens blog its fantastic everything that you fear is wrong with washington its proven right if you read this book the grifters the hacks its really its really a sorry spectacle, but one that you cant stop us game stop reading and i happens to be true. Your Nations Capital so yeah look obviously the city has had a rough summer been a sort of of process stories that no candidate president wants all of them negative about his his organization. I think that probably matters less to voters on the ground in iowa than obviously the folks who of living and breathe. But its not helpful the sense that the year before the president ial race, the socalled invisible primary, the Media Coverage does matter. It kind of has a sort of tidal tisdales, a sort of tidal way to in the sense that its sort of it can lift and recede, kill. Its and sort of see that over the years in both parties. And obviously hes been hurt by that coverage. But that coverage can shift and all and oftentimes the coverage, those shifting that come back begins having a strong debate. So the stakes are significant. Hes got to show what would sort of endear him in the first place to so many republicans voters on the debate stage. I think in some ways its for him that trump is not there because while yeah, the pressure is more intense because hes more honest, hes more the story, the opportunity i think is greater for him to without trump because you dont have the distraction of of trump being there and he has got at least a chance to emerge edge in the coverage that night in the days after as biggest storyline now the risk is that its a bad storyline but at least he has a chance. If trump was there in every story that night in the days after would be whatever the crazy trump that are said. Yeah. So i think it does at least offer see if theres an opportunity here. Joey, let me bring you in. Were talking about trump not being the debate. Well, of course, biden not going to be at the debate. You just recently wrote a piece for usa today about biden. You know, hes going to be taking probably 99 of the incoming fire. What is the Biden Campaign doing to try to counteract that early on . Well, first of all, thanks again for having me here. Its great to be in mississippi with such unseasonably cool weather outside. So great to be here. And but yeah, so the Biden Campaign has been operating very quietly to the frustration of some some democrats, you know, so far since he announced in april, theres not been a big campaign rally. You know, theyve been satisfied and, you know, the republicans duking it out at each other while were the Biden Campaign starts amassing a Large Campaign war chest, they. About 77 million on hand. But theyre really going to use this debate as their first kind of pivot with a with a large tv blitz targeting, you know the maga extreme republican is thats how theyll be theyll be framing it it continues kind of the themes of the white house over the last year and a half. So youll also see the dispatching, jaime harrison, the dnc chairman, as well as cedric richmond, a former congressman from louisiana nearby who is a white house adviser. He will be dispatched to milwaukee. They you know, they are going to use you know, a lot of the themes that we see in among republicans, you know, theyre going to start pouncing that i still think were going to see a rather quiet biden operation. And until 2024, they just dont see the need right now to totally engage while republicans are still unsettled and hes he doesnt seem to engage much even with the press he doesnt give very many interviews doesnt do very many news conferences is very protected by the staff. Is it hard to cover a candidate president like that. It is hard. It can be difficult. Its a you know, it could be a sore subject among us reporters. I mean, its been, you know, trump in terms of accessibility, he was way more accessible. He always talked to reporters. He was going out to marine one on the white house, south lawn. And theyre very guarded with president now that he went about a two week stretch recently where he didnt engage in any questions, the press and it was you can imagine it was when the hunter biden stuff has resurfaced with the tapping with the of a special counsel but than that his plea deal that fell apart and so that wasnt an issue that he wanted to talk about and also i dont theyre still trying to figure out. I think, how to touch the indictments of trump if he is nominee. You know, on the one hand, you can stay quiet about it and kind of those stories, you know, you know, tell themselves in terms of of framing who trump is and if the president , you know, were to talk it theyre going to republicans would those saying hey you see it is a this is them weaponizing the judiciary you know but at the same time this is going to be such a dominating in to what jonathan of the own unknowns that we have. You know, this is tops among them that we dont know what going to be dealing with in terms of what court cases are going to be. Look, you know the trial dates, you know what the sentencing could be. So, you know, thats going to be something that the biden folks are going to have to figure out how to kind of on. Theres theres three issues that biden has not figured out how to deal with or that his staff does not want to come to terms with. One is the investigation into hunter biden. The other is bidens age and how to address that. And if were being totally honest, you know, the third is his department of justice prosecuting the former president. They havent figured how to address those issues because theyre difficult issues to address and because is a how shall i put this biden is a risky. Risky asset when it comes to public performance. We have a line in our book. Its a delicate way of putting it in your in our book, cspan. Audience. David axelrod, the former obama adviser, said this and you have to imagine it in a great deadpan voice that i cant fully do, he said. The biden staff has performance anxiety. Biden performs and they get anxious. Well, i mean you also pretty good line because every time biden goes out there they know what hes going to say necessarily. Hes at a fundraiser a couple of months ago and he calls the ecology a dictator. And the next day there is a sort of the speculation among a lot of our allies around the world that whats whats whats biden up to here . You deal with this. This is not a new shift in the american policy. Beijing no, its joe biden. They joe biden is talking at a fund and got to lose. I mean, thats like how you phrase but if youre bidens staff you know thats a risky proposition it comes to all three of those topics and i dont think they fully come to terms with how to address that. Well, when you chronicle the 2020 race, of course it was during covid and so much of that campaign for him really took place. The basement. Yeah. The gift for biden 2020 and Kamala Harris was they are both unsteady public performers, especially when speaking off the cuff and for the duration of the general election in 2020, they had a ready made reason to not do a rope line, to not do a press conference. There was a cabal. And so its obviously a different story now. But as the city president , its remarkable how little he does in terms of sit down interviews and full dress press conferences. He just doesnt give. I think theres still only been one sit down interview with the with a print publication that was associated press. Hes not done one since then and thats you know there, has been you know, occasional tv appearances. His most recent tv interview is with the Weather Channel of, all outlets. So you know, theyve been picking and choosing and theyve you know, they dont think that, as jonathan alluded to, he can be gaffe machine. So they dont you know, they have limited those opportunities. And you write about kind of the troubled first two years of the Biden Administration. So many people felt that he sort of failed, make things normal again. You write about even a conversation that you had with jen psaki that the White House Press secretary, about whether he even run again. Yeah. So the premise of this book basically is to look at the first two years in a post trump may maybe pretrump again, this interregnum, there was this talk in washington that could go back to normal. We had these four years where like every day had to look at twitter and like wonder if we were going to go have nuclear war with north korea. And finally, things could be normal again. But having covered washington as long as i had, i could look around and say like, this is not normal here. Like this is not theres no way to just go back to normal. I dont know if biden failed and in trying to make things normal or not, i just think that is not a reality. And so i spent time trying to like figure out what the new normal was like, how things, how things worked. And i found like kind of a city that was very broken. People were still trying to figure out like what strategies made sense were making big bets, literally, but also kind of figuratively on where things were. And trumps influence was just kind of everywhere. And so, you know, its its not a city that is trumps city, but it certainly reflects him still in a lot of ways. Well and you mentioned sort of the biden bridge. There was theres discussions recently you reported on in your column about kind of conversations that are still happening about whether somebody in the party will step up and challenge him. Yeah. I mean, the the great the great reveal about modern politics i