memorial to the holocaust, now committed to to the crucial mission of educating community about jewish heritage before and after the holocaust, meant to illuminate the stories of survivors, broaden stories of hate and antisemitism through time and stories of resistance against injustice. today we'll be discussing the book, "the boy who drew auschwitz" a story of hope and survival, tells the story of thomas eve, a 92-year-old holocaust survivor from germany. in 1933, were deported, and left to defend for himself in the camp of auschwitz one, thomas experienced the worst of nazi cruelty but he never gave up the will to live. immediately after liberation, thomas created more than 80 drawings documenting life around him, rendered in simple yet poignant detail, the drawings reflect day-to-day life in the camps at the same time they revealed the shared humanity between thomas and other prisoners. we're honored to be joined by thomas's daughter, and journalist charlie anglefield who wrote the book with thomas. please feel free to put questions in the zoom q&a chat and we will get to as many as we can why the end of the hour, thank you so much for joining us and i'll pass things over. >> hi, hi everyone, very exciting to be here and thank you for joining us. i'm sorry that thomas is not with us physically but he will join us through these recordings and talking about his testimony so he will be kind of participating with us. and i think we just start and we have some time in the end to speak a little bit more. okay, so i'll do the share. oh, sorry. okay. can you see now? one, front page? >> yes. >> okay. so this is thomas's testimony, the boy who drew auschwitz testimony, unique life-story through the time of second world war. i just say that thomas is pseudonym my father chose after the war to allow him to live his life, i'll talk more about that, but thomas was born in chechin in those times were germany, later on, now this is poland, used to be germany. first boy to his parents beth and eric you can see them here. i hope you can see the arrow. eric was a doctor and he was also a grandson of a doctor and his father was also a doctor, he was born 19 -- end of 1921, october actually 1929. life started as happy, regular happy life for young boy, nice childhood, visit with the family, living in germany as a jew and this stage of course didn't mean much but later on, life started on those years started to change very dramatically to all jewish citizens of germany. in 1933, one of the changes after of course the rise of nazi regime, lots of new rules came in, restrictions, and one of them, the family was in chechin as i mentioned but because the change and thomas father a doctor could not work anymore in public places and had to move back to his hometown which was boiton, on the border of poland and everything about thomas now would be kind of significant in the story later so he spend a few years in boyton growing up, happy child, very connected to nature also would play a role later in life, connected to his aunt and they teach him quite a lot about life. you really, as you see on top here, has a lot of very good technical sense. he love machine and fascinated with modern life that he start to, very curious about life and all those years of course, life started to change for him dramatically as jews. he start as first you would see him here and boyton first day of school, very typical thing they had those cones of candies with his mother here, seem like a happy, naughty boy, he didn't get to go many year to see school but that was a very exciting years of school years 1938, very huge change and one of the most dramatic scene was in november, 1938, have the broken glasses where many jews where optimistic that things could go worse and probably people kind of wake up on time and stop this craziness of naziism, that didn't happen, proving they don't have any future in germany, must save their lives. thomas's father being a doctor and man at risk more than others so tried to pull the family out to find a place to immigrate to, was very hard to immigrate. in 1939, the family is splitting, thomas's father is moving to england and the plan is he would draw thomas and his mother as soon as possible later, but he lives in summer of '39, in september, world war ii is breaking out and the borders are shut and thomas and his mother left to stay in bolivia and i can believe, is getting more and more dangerous and challenging being a jew and more and more jews are moving out, disappearing, will send out to the east. thomas, in 1942 in the schools, the jewish schools are locked and closed. there's an opposition, the jewish community gives option to youngsters to choose some community work and thomas is choosing to work in the cemetery, jewish cemetery, a lot of teenagers in the beginning, they maybe were gardening and helping around. he was just 12 then, so he couldn't have help burying people but he helped around and as time went forward, more and more of those young people disappeared, moved out or gone off, sent. so the grown-ups were less and less in league with them. there was one time he and his mother were caught and, you know, they collect the jews and send them to the east and they were caught as well. but thomas was kind of bravely finding a solution and he went and offered himself to work in the cemetery. people had jobs that were needed somewhere, they had some more kind of option to stay more in berlin so he persuaded the official people that he can help, he can work in the cemetery and his mother was working different works in all sorts of factories and also needed work so he persuaded them that they let them go so they went back to berlin to be free in berlin and under restrictions of course, but for almost another year, so it was by june, '43, that time became so hard and they could not support themself anymore, could not hide anymore, it went more and more tough to stay there as jews and dangerous as well so they decided to hand themselves to authorities hoping the move to the east would be, they knew the people wanted to work so how harder it could be, they were used to hard work and really hoped moving to the east would be better solution for them. so it was june, '43 when thomas and his mother were put in the, in berlin, the detention camp in westwood where his school was and cemetery was around there and one of the last transport from berlin, number 39, to the east but arriving to the gates of auschwitz, now, so the time is june, '43, and thomas is arriving to auschwitz, here we see the journey, from now on the next two years, we will see thomas's story through his drawing and as was mentioned in the beginning i'll briefly go through the times when those next 22 months, thomas was spent 19 months in auschwitz one main camp, and then moved to the death march and sent to gross rosen for a short while and then again to buchenwald, he's liberated in april '45 when buchenwald is liberated and during that time that's where he's doing the drawings that we're going to see now on top of post cards left on the ss quarters with some colors he got from inmates and soldiers, american soldiers and he draws a set of over 80 drawings, kind of miniature drawings, actually, combination of sevens, lists, lyrics of songs and mainly scenarios of life. thomas is choosing to describe life as he experience and his friends experience in camp. his main motivation was to show his father, hopefully his parents, after the war, what he's been through and his friends have been through. that was motivation to do the drawings so now we go into thomas work of drawings. here we see the gates of bilkina actually, when he was in '43, arrival was outside of the gates, later, it was at old ramp, later, trains started to go inwards, inside the camp. but that was like out in the fields and we can see that the real gates now days and we can see how loyal thomas was for the troops for the reality around him, the combination of technical skills, service to details, many years living in berlin, being used to being around nazi soldiers, that was kind of helpful when he arrived to auschwitz to this new, unknown world, so we can see that the detail was very vivid in his mind when he drew those drawings. this is the first scene of arrival and we can hear now, i hope we can hear, let me know if you don't hear that, but we will hear thomas explaining a few things about these drawings and can follow the arrow, i will show the parties, he's talking about. >> yeah the arrival, that was the most historic picture i could ever imagine, how people arrived and sorted out who was being killed the same day, children and invalids in the middle, you see women for work at the top, women and invalids and at the bottom, man, sorted out by as they arrive and of course, all that was brought along as you see historically, left in the wagons, they never saw them again. this picture was recognized and i'm very proud of it, in the auschwitz museum -- here at arrival -- >> sorry, okay, i think it's a bit cut for some reason, the text, but thomas is just started to explain that the, in the now days, in the museum, the jewish block, you can see this drawing scribbled on the walls in memorials where they did drawings of children after the war and thomas drawing is there as well. thomas call this drawing the saddest scenario of modern life and i think he's quite right this drawing, thomas shows us the process after becoming a prisoner, we see the bed, his colored clothing, with citizen, we know over 1.6 million people arrived to auschwitz and about 400,000 of them more or less were registered to work or were not fit in arrival and wherever were kind of lucky to be there and be alive in the beginning, they went through this process of becoming prisoner. so first time, first block or station, clothes are taken off later to be sent back to germany to have the citizen, they were just sent all those clothes, shoes, were sent back to germany. here, people are shaved all body hair. we can say maybe the motivation behind that was mainly for sanitation, but we also know that, you know, taking off your hair or losing headhair also had the meaning of taking out your dignity and abilities, your feeling of self in a way, a way of illuminating peoples' identity, here we see this disinfection and then the showers and receiving uniform and then the tattooing. all the people who were selected to work got those tattoos and then registration as we know nazis were really strict with registration, everything was very set. later when they left auschwitz they burned all those documents but in the beginning everything was really documented and that process of becoming a prisoner. now thomas went through this process and there are two points, three things that happen in that point, just to tell you, that little stories, of course, reading the book and we'll explore lots of what happened in those hours but one thing as he's on is thomas is looking at the digits of the number he got. his number was one to seven, 003, being a technical guy, he immediately kind of connected the digits and gets to the number of 13, they add up to 13 and he wonders if that could be good luck. another point, the guy who did this, all this process were done by prisoners, it was, just watching, but prisoners did everything. there was not much direction connection between the ss officers and the prisoners but they were not allowed to talk to them, that was part of the horrifying process that, no speaking. but at that point the two weeks, was quite a young person and was looking up at thomas and kind of blessed him said good luck to you and that was a very unusual thing to do and gave lots of strength to thomas. at that point, start to figure out the only men around him, older men, he was just young, being 13, he noticed that so he thought he would be really brave and save himself so he went to one of the german officers. he kind of put himself up and very strictly said excuse me, sir, but i think you're making a mistake here, i'm just a boy, i'm not supposed to be here, to the man, please send me where are the camp of the, where the boys are. and that officer looked at him and says go back where you came from and one day would be thankful didn't do that. took about 24 hours later to understand the real truth about the camp where he arrived to. and 24 hours later, thomas understand there's no camp for children, no camp for elderly, no camp for disabled people and he's kind of lucky to be with men at that point. here we see some of thomas's drawings are lists. he was listing things, some from memory and some from documents that were found later on in the offices. here we see a list of auschwitz camps. sorry, i don't know if you see -- the first one is auschwitz one, later called auschwitz then changed to one, two, and three, but thomas arrival is auschwitz a mens camp about 80,000 men, buna, and other satellite camps that were actually after a year later were all one big complex of auschwitz and spiders web, to explain all of that, gave that presence, spider web. so thomas drawings some maps, very accurate maps, some from memory, some from documents and some from help from people who were in those camps. here was a map he drew about, of auschwitz one, blocks and everything and the next postcard was just an explanation of the drawing. arrival to auschwitz one mens camp, first month is quarantine and at that time, connect with other youngsters, all of them over 15, but young and from berlin as well, and those four recorded -- quartet, they bond together and set a bond to help each other all the way through. together, they decide they want to ask to be part of a very unique project for the youth, it's called the brickline school. this was a brick line school, thomas, that was a very special project meant to help the youngsters give them a profession to help building and that was -- the idea was, came from another prisoner many years before in other camps but auschwitz had one too, here we can hear thomas talking about. >> yeah, that's a brick-laying school. that was an invention school, where 200 children were thought to lay bricks and saved their lives. that, i was received there. i was the third-youngest at that time. most of the other boys were gypsys and russians. >> boys from all over europe were collected together and thomas described in his testimony the difference between the time, life to the youth was unique and different from the grown-ups. in some mentions it was the same, in some very different, but the testimony is very focusing about what happened to the youth and how they lived together. i went through all that horrible life together and this is, makes this testimony very unique to the younger generation because it's focused in the eyes of a teenager, talking about other teenagers from around the world how they coped in different ways of coping, as well as grown-ups. >> yeah, that's a brick-laying school -- >> so tomas, being a brick-layer. >> that's a brick-laying school -- >> sorry -- allowed him to go around. here he draws that the will of work, will of life, and how the work as brick layers, different things they did as brick layers. now it was a unique job because most prisoners went to one specific job and did that most of their time. by the way, the life expectancy of life of a prisoner was about three to six months, that's it and tomas was there for much longer, 22 months, very long for prisoner and so he was there for a long time to see lots of things but being a brick layer allowed him to move around, sometimes out of the camps, sometimes inside the camp, meeting in different group work, allowing to meet different various people, also civilians sometimes, so that gave his broad information and another thing that make this testimony unique because he saw a lot of things, experienced a lot of things and places and people and all of that is described in his testimony. here, we see a daily routine, day life of the worker. we talk, they wake up at 6:00, and they worked from 6:00 in the morning to 6:00 in the evening, with one hour break kind of for lunch and then settling to the lights off at night time and 11 hours labor work a day. . another list we see here of different working groups in auschwitz. one, thomas was participating in a few of them. as small as the group was, it was a bit better because usually just have less people and less guarding of the ss and more of prisoners guarding which was a bit better. here we see the hierarchy of prisoners, as i said in auschwitz, most of daily life was handled by prisoners in hierarchy, different blocks and so on, the ss guards were more outside. jews were not allowed in auschwitz one, maximum jews could be was working under -- here was the role call and i'll let let thomas speak here as well. >> and this is very warm to my heart because it shows all my comrades, fellow prisoners lined up at night. why? if somebody was missing, we had to stand for hours until they find out he may have fallen asleep, may have died somewhere, we don't know. so we had to stand there and of course, people say you see the block elder in blue and then you see the ss man and people say yes, i drew them big because i was afraid of the ss -- i wasn't afraid. some ss men were smaller. i was taller than some of the ss men anyhow, so i wanted to show his equipment, his boots, revolver, his stick, his cap and all of this i wanted to show how it was, the camp guards, ss guards. >> here, we see the vermin, the different disease, there's another drawing we don't see here about the diseases but the vermin was a very problematic thing since such a tight place, so many people in very tight place and that was very dangerous. here we see a list thomas, as we said, very technical guy, he lists exactly, exactly what they aid here. he compared the life in auschwitz and in buchengard a daily amount of food rags in each day, exactly what we see, they have one liter of soup, about 350 grams of bread, in auschwitz, it's less, even less in butengard later, sundays, get a little bit of jam twice a week, little bit of sausage and the amount as mentioned before was not, people were not expected to live long on that amount and, of course, to survive had a organize a little bit more food. here we see the delivery food that was cooking for so many people was, of course, they could not provide real good food and when we say soup, it was mainly water with sometimes a bit of vegetables and sometimes even things like shoes and things that were not edible in normal life, but anything to put some kind of nutrition was useful and in winter time, people used to eat the snow and that was quite nutritious as well. here we see people had to organize extra food, that was a main thing to survive, anything, from peels of vegetables found in the garbage or rotten cabbage or food for the hosts or rotten food, anything, anything would be good enough for nutrition, a little bit more than this the little food they had. here, we see the selection in let him speak here. >> this was a most dangerous situation. twice a year, they had to select, and that didn't matter whether we were jewish, gypsy, russian, christian-german, polish christian, didn't matter what origin you were, you had to run naked and now it's very interesting a story. if you had any wounds on from working with bricks and, or any, or you limps or didn't walk right, even what is historically important and people don't know that even if you wore glasses on your head you were sorted out to be killed. and here, as you see, these people don't walk home. they run home, because they're afraid the ss may open the door and says you little guy, come back again, yes, they could do that. yes, it's a very dangerous situation. i went through about three of these situations. >> okay. after -- i'll kind of go quickly through the rest so we can see -- i see the time here. so i go briefly through a few more drawings and let thomas speak more. so here we see dangers, main dangers, life in the camp -- that's the most strongest color, that the prisoner has to be very careful about. we see the crematorium of course, the disease, punishment, and the bunker. here, just to show thomas's testimony, he says i was like a journalist going around the camp describing all life, not much of his personal experience but around him. so thomas mentioned lots of different prisoners. he would see a drawing mentioning the gypsys, lots -- thomas was very friendly with the gypsys, talks a lot about them, describing their experience in camp. the jehova witness, and others, mentioning prisoners from around europe, not only jews in auschwitz one but the center of jews very small actually, sometimes less than 20%, sometimes less than 10% jews, of course, other camps as well were different but jews were mainly at arrival and thomas mentioned all the different persons around him. here other kinds of drawings, some are lyrics of songs prisoners used to sing, the word of the music was very significant to thomas as encouraging, reminding them of humanity of life and rising their spirits up and lots of that in the stories as well. the abc, just abc of life in what was the main words that accompany life in the camp, we see here, saying, thomas was a boy, seeing he was very young and a way to show his life through the alphabet in the camp. >> and this is also very memorable, not the exodus of the jews, of course, center of jews in the camp as i was, camp number one in auschwitz was less than 10%, sometimes even 2%, most other people, now you have exodus out of auschwitz as you see, everybody is carrying something. and the people, 20 years, been moving about the schools, who is me? i didn't think about is me, and of course it's the little one in the bottom who has got no luggage and no blankets to tie to him, that is me, or supposed to be. then very historically important also for me, on the bottom, you see a real fire that looks real and block elder supervising it, ss man stands by to see that all the documents of auschwitz are being burned. well, i have drawn everything, my things are alive and kicking everywhere so that was no burning the documents didn't help and here we get provisions for the long exodus all the way to buchangard. >> this is a scenario from the death march, marching from auschwitz to laslo, train station, driven by train, we see on top here the train, open wagon, talking about poland, freezing cold, many people die in that part just from the freezing and by the march. we can see amazing scenarios of people hardly dragging themselves through the snow with no good shoes. thomas himself had two different shoes not fitting shoe size but they had to go through that and even though they're helping each other, carrying each other, and even thomas described as young as he was, as weak as he was, there was constantly people leaning on his shoulders and he helped people around to do this very dangerous march. >> and here -- >> and marching through the train to first station was goshwosen, very dangerous camp, just a shorter time a few weeks, then again evacuated as germans were moving backwards to germany, their prisoners were evacuated to the east. sorry, to the west. arriving to buchenwald, that camp was already in germany and it was different, it was, camp was established in '37, lots of political prisoners, they actually established very developed underground. and one of the things that it was a camp police, very unique to buchenwald they took care of prisoners and especially the young ones, young were taken care very especially by the other prisoners and thomas was saved a few times by the underground, all those stories, of course, in his testimony. i let thomas speak for the liberation scenario. >> and here, the famous scene, historic scenes, liberation of buchenwald, six different versions of the liberation and only one is three, the three american tanks on the left, the american flag very historically drawn, they came on this side of the camp, that's the main entrance of the camp. there was a revolt and we had 200 people with arms and we stormed the camp. withdrew the camp guards and my own theory of the liberation is completely different to official ones, we had suc on top, we had captured one machine gun and for one year it was hidden under the floor. and when we started shooting with the machine gun, i reckon that the guards thought the americans are shooting inside didn't think prisoners had machine gun so thought americans arrived inside the camp and most of them fled. that was a real story of the liberation as you see these men here, the ss men with his arms up and another also armed up, he tried to hide himself by putting blue prisoners, say take off your jacket and ss uniform, and some of them only had whip and see didn't have all rifles and as you see, very accurate to the rifle, i'm very proud, aimed exactly on to the man and he is shakic the rifle, very historic picture of the celebration where are by the prisoners underground an picture of the celebration where are ng the rifle, very historic picture of the celebration where are while after the american soldiers arrived in shocked by what they see. they were filming everything afterwards and the prisoner was showing them around later. also civilians were brought in just to see the horrors of what happened in there. thomas speak a bit more about the american friend. unfortunately, we don't have time to hear the whole testimony but here he talks about the american arrival. of course. that was very what happened them. top will speak off it. unfortunately we don't have time to hear the whole testimony but hear he talks about the american arrival. of course that was an amazing time, being freed for the first time. i will letum thomas speak here. > then on the 1st of may, th big march passed and i was with -- i was with german -- someo' called them -- german up ahead up at post. and march passed here, the flags of britain and the states, and russia, and churchill, who we marched pass. then the camera was turned on me. and that was something very moving. these photos got lost, the camera, o all the films got los but i was very proud, 1st of may. >> so, this was a scene of victory that is also -- there are official films of that scenario, and thomas was there flags.e of the itnd took thomas two months to recover. here we willoc see thomas after liberation -- before liberation but the underground put them in blocks, the teenagers in one block t66, he -- thomas is not n this photo, but we see other inmates about his age. so he was very much one of these boys. h he couldn't walk at that stage. he was too weak and too wounded in his legs so he couldn't walk. the only thing he could do was sit in his barrack. he was moved to barrack 29 with german a speakers. and there he was with other unground members that collected -- one of them was corps began, a famous historian. and f together with the other underground they collected information from the ss offices and all that information was piled in one single table in the block. and that allowed thomas first of all to be exposed to lots of information. and also, he sat on the same table and he did those drawings for two months, april to june. he was doing those drawings. i go very briefly through what happened after liberation because the time is kind of finishing soon. thomas hase -- there was a project, yeah, that was a big question what to do with all the survivors. most of themro did not have whe to go,h the youngest were or fanned by that point. no families, no place to go back to. it was a big question around europe what toe do with those youngsters. and thomas was choosing to join a projectwe for switzerland. there wereef about 400 boys and girls sent to switzerland for recovery. them. is one of he received trains of teenagers just before being sent. thomas arrived to switzerland. first hele arrived for a quarantine where he gets really ill again, and he's hospitalized for a while. after that, he's moved to a place with a bit more than 100 boys and girls. and this is where thomas story and charles inglefield's story connects. in momentss we will hear charlie's story. but this is how those two stories end up together 74 years later. but here weer see the boys. and here we are see thomas, the second on top here on the right. thomas is 15 at liberation. and he's in switzerland, and by his 16th birthday in october '45, the red cross helped thomas and his father find each other. at that point, they don't know what happened with hisat mother but they find eachon other. and in november '45, thomas is joining his fatherno in london england. and he becomes an english citizen. and at that point, they understand that his mother did not survive the camps. thomasas joined his father. that's his father, eric, after those long years of separation. they unite. thomas is finishing his studies. he becomes an building engineer from the brickling school in is auschwitz, he became building engineer. and then at the age of 20, the surprise ofha his life, his fatr is remarried, and thomas becomes an older brother to his younger sister, judith. and at that point, he made a huge decision, and he decided to immigrate to israel and be part of building the jewish state. and as an engineer, he comes to israel, 1950. he start to work this the jewish agency, helps to build israel, building whole houses and buildings all around israel. very, very young state at that age -- at that stage. he joined the army as an officer, an engineering officer, in the engineering unit, fighting all the wars of israel and getting married, having three children, nine grandchildren, and a year and a bit ago his first great granddaughter. so game a great grandfather, and a t grandfather, and a father, d a very proud one. and a brother here, with his sister, judith. thomas's story was pubbished in '58 for the first time as a pocketbook. '81, is time when his life changed because there was a gathering of survivors. he found one of his friends from the camp. at that point, he decided to be an active witness. he republished his testimony in '85 and '87 again, and then was an album of his books still available, and a film about his life with mowsing, a documentary about his story, a very unique one. and that he started to be an active wwitness. for over 20 years he went about europeec talking to audiences a just later on 1960 was the last journey. he decided not to travel anymore. but he got to speak with audiences in israel. now there he is in zoom. here where the story connected to charily. charlie, i will let him speak in a moment. charlie heard of thomas's story, and he thought, i have been so many years sincene the testimon was out, and thanks to his enthusiasm and will, thomas's story is out again to the world in a new version, in a new edition. last year in the uk for the first time, in summer in the u.s. and now this last january, the second edition in england again. already translated to various languages. and getting to new audiences, which we are very happy to see. i will just.c mention here f anyone wants to connect thomas asking questions, that's his email. and the reworked title is rebuild now. it is going to be out soon. last words. i will let thomas speak. and they will we will hear charily. thank you forou t listening. >> people ask me if i am happy about myer new book. well, there is nothing happy about theps past.co but it is good that the 40 prisoners who helped me to survive two years of concentration camps have all become alive again, all over the world. > thank you so much. charlie, m your turn. >> thank you very much, that was a great presentation. thank you to the team if new york for giving us the opportunity to talk about this today, about the book. i am going to talk about the book behind the ecbook. the process of putting a book like this together. i guess i split it into three parts. the first part is how did the book come about? is second part is the strategy, the direction of the book. and three, i guess, is the learnings and the objectives of what wean hope the reader takes from reading a book like this. so to get things started, the book really came about through the mostt random of circumstances. my t family and i lived in a ext town outside of zurich in march 2019. i had a friend friends of mine, natalie, who told me about an exhibition that was taking place in theberg mew scheme called the children of beautien grad. it was the last photograph on the flyer you just saw. natalie handed me flyer. it isll when i first saw the na thomas geve. i went to google, put thomas's name in, and that's when i first saw some of his j amazing drawings, which really hit me, the simplicity, the powerful images that he drew. and i also saw thomas geve.com, andd i wrote an email to thomas geve.com very, very soon afterwards.s i was likees a sponge, to be honest. in other words, i sort of just listened and wasse fascinated about thomas's life, not just his life as a boy and not just his experiences about the holocaust, but his life after all of these horrendous events took w place. weo talked about the fact that two of his books obviously came out, onene was in 1958, youth i chains. we alsosp mentioned guns and barbed wire in 1987. so itt had been a long time sine audiences had arguably read his experiences. i think a that was when really inspired us toth say let's brin it to today's audiences. i was on a a plane to israel in july, 2019. i spent a wonderful week with yifat and g her family and thom. i am noto an author, a his for on, not an expert, i am not jewish either. i just found thomas's story inspiring. i read his second book, guns and barbed w wire. so yifat said let's see if we cane take it to today's audiences. that was the firsto stages of te book. the second was howir do we go about this? the strategy, the direction of putting together a bookte like this. to be perfectly honest, as simplistic as it sounds it was toof actually have a direct. i was incredibly lucky in the fact that we have the content, the content from guns and barbes wire was an amazing story to read. we had a selection of thomas's drawings as well. so it was really about updating thomas's testimony as a part of this third edition as the book we now know, the boy who drew auschwitz. from my perspective, one of the keys was to provide a flow to the reader, allow the reader to digest, to hopefully discover, toha take a pause as well becau there were so many stories and events that thomas goes through. therefore, one of the first pointse to the strategy was to provide more chapters just to allow the reader to have that flow. the second key aim iti guesson to provide more references, more footnotes, bothes visual as wel asus text references and footnotes, because thomas mentions,s you know, places, names, peopleha he was acquaintances with, dates as well. just to hopefully help the reader along as they read the story. and i would also add in that we wanted too add in some photographs as well because particularly when the camp was liberated, hopefully it was a way for the reader to obviously go through thomas's story but have a few perches points as e well. some of the photographs were put in forea that point. so i guess i finish it in terms of the learnings and objectives and i look at this prosecutor a personal perspective as well. know, here we are nearly three years on, and i still get shivers listening to thomas's he voice. i hope yifat and thomas don't mind me saying it. thomas is a main of detail. he doesn't suffer fools gladly. it was a daunting experience working with thomas right at the again beginning, but he made me feel very much at ease. and it wass obviously a huge, huge privilege. i don't think yifat and i stop learning. to be nihonest. when we dos talk, there seem to be new bits of information coming to light. one of the key learnings i take was towards thete beginning of e process of putting this book together, thomas often talked aboutti creatures, wild animals in terms of describing or descriptions,, expressions, ct meanings. at the beginning, i didn't really understand what these descriptions meant. and therefore, i thought, well, fit doesn't make a huge amount of sense to me, should we includee it. whereas actually learning through theou process, and learning more d about thomas an what he went through, if you change descriptions or if you change his meanings, you are changing what he wants to describe at the time, as a boy. and that goes absolutely against, you know, what we should be learning from a survivor like thomas. so there are so many learnings i can mention but i will only mention that one. the l objective behind the book? look, what i hope -- and i know what the family hopes -- is whilst we have survivors like thomas with us, they remain the last human link to this infamous piece of history, this period of history. i guess gio the aim behind doin this updated version of thomas's testimony iss' to ensure all generations -- it is not just future generations, it is all generations, that this event never happens again. we have thomas'se voice and experiences to hopefully help in those experiences. i l say this sadly because of t events happening in ukraine at the moment. i hope that gives you a sense the book behind the book, the process of putting a book like this together. thank you very much for listening in. >> thank you so much, charlie and yifat. before we move into audience q and a, i had the opportunity to talkig to thomas with yifat, an yifat recorded a few his answers. i am only going to play two right now before we move into sort the live q and a. but i think this will also answer some of the questions that have been coming through throughout the program. so this first slide is really about what happened to thomas's friend yifat mentioned that he had made -- you know, he was with a group of other children in the camp. so i asked him what happened tot them. can you hear that? no? okay. hold on. i think i forgot to share my sound. there we go. okay. let's try that again.e >> i don't know if he's still alive. but he went to live in new york. look -- he live -- i don't know if he's stillhe alive. but he went to live in new york. there is -- who went to live in australia. and there is belga, who went back tonf belgium. that is three of them. and one., he -- i contacted his wife. and unfortunately, he died in the camp just before liberation. very sad. now, where did i get the information? notig from my parents. i hardly met my parents. it lived with my grandmother. so i read the newspapers and also listened to the radio. that's where i got my information wfrom. >> so then this next question that i amhe going to share is - you know, i had asked thomas a little bit about -- we kind of got into the history of the book from his perspective. and he also kind of talked about how the drawings were stored, which was another question that was coming through throughout the program. here we go. > excellent pictures i drew r my father in england to inform him exactly what happened. that was where the pictures came in. and of course technically speaking they couldn't be published foryo many, many year because, as i said, the publishers in lon deny said the boy is not a picasso. wewe cannot print his pictures. you know how much money it costs. for many years in europe you couldn't print color pictures. so i had to write it down. of course the first book edition came out without pictures. and i used the pictures to write the book. yes. and of course the present version, of the book is alread version number six. it is good that the book has been alive allo the time. >> wokay. so now i am going to move into some of the questionshe that yo have asked to yifat and charlie. yifat, how old were you when you first learned about thinks drawings and what about what happenedat to thomas? >> thomas's testimony was originally written inm english. when we were younger, he did not talk --as he separated his personal life -- present life from past life. so he did not speak about his testimony. there was a book. we knew of the book, but my english was not a good enough t read such a book when i was younger. and only when i was 21 i took the bookd with dictionary word-to-word ande struggled to read through it. but more or less got the story. but as charlie mentioned, up to this day, when i read the testimony, every time i come to new information. so later on, just the last more as a came partner to my father. he was willing to share his testimony with me. i and i came -- it is my role now to o carry the testimony once h already wants the retire. and so i keep on studying and interviewing him about things and hepeople, getting more information. so it's kind of a live testimony, keeps on changing and more approximate more information comes out. i guess also the books, with years we hope to add more and more information as we gather it as well. > thank you. i think this is a question for both charlie and yifat. butak do you think this is a bo that is appropriate for students to read? and do you hope this is something thatio will be used i schools going forward? >>as yifat, i am happy to take e first part to this. yeah, it's aee good question. i have been askeds this questio a number of times over the last few weeks. look, from my personal perspective, i feel this book ir probably appropriate from the ages of 13 and above. i think children younger than that it is still quite a -- well,te it is a very powerful book. it is traumatic in some ways. and obviously, when you are talking about maturity and a right time to listen to a man from this kind of event, then from a personal perspective, i would think 13 and above. >> i would add that -- i agree with every word of charlie. and i would add that this testimony aimed to all ages, i mean fromt teenagers and above. it's unique because it's a teenager's's eye, so teenagers n relate to this story. also it brings out you have very much of the difference, how the teenagersen related to what's going on around them. notre just life in camp. alsog before and after. and thomas made lotsf of conversation with his inmates. see a different way ofgu thinking. and the difference from im grownups' way of thinking and they teenagers. and also because of the drawings, of course,in it makest more -- the language of the drawings relate to any age. i did the testimony for very young ages just using certain -- like the food and the daily life, comparing to the nowadays life. the a, b, c, for instance. it is recommended by ministry os education in europe under. it's getting known. wewe do hope for education of course. educaing the young generation is w important, it influences le nowadays. it is not justerva about the holocaust b. human beings, about humanye relations, coping with trauma, coping with various events in this your lives. it is very relevant to nowadays. we hopet the younger generation is going to read this of course. >> we are running up against time. yifat, i know you have one final testimony from thomas to share with us, just about what he hopes we all get out of the book and his message. >> yeah, it is a very short message fromm thomas. i will share the screen again. sorry. >> dear listeners, in april, 1945, when i was liberated from the camp at the age of 15, i decided to document what i saw and experienced during two years together with my friends at the camps of auschwitz in a set of over 80 drawings, lists and maps. two years later, i started also to write. from the years of 19, i am active as witness and tell about the past. i am asked why i did this. i chose to record and tell about the past because it is important for me that also those that were not there could learn about the past and know exactly what happened.. to remember the past and learn from the past. to be active accordingly, and do good. thomas geve. >> i just wanted to add and stress as well, to thank you sydney and the museum for this opportunity. we are verysmo honored and than you for sharing. thank you, charlie, again, for being our, you know, we call him a guardian angel, but really foe bringing this testimony out in the world again. wero wanted to thank harper collins for taking this book on to new audiences, and all the partners, all the translators, translating the book. all the editors, all the teams aroundnd the world that helped bring out thiser testimony. we want to take this opportunity to thank f everyone. and all the people who support thomas from his first day in camps u after life after camp, l the way through, all his friends around the world supported him, each one in his way. and i think the main thomas wroteut message here is just to remember, life matters. people matter. every person can make a difference for good and for bad. but we can -- the history was done by people. ande nowadays -- i mean, the future is our decision now adays. we see that now live around us, around the world.he and m the power of unity is endless. and we can defeat any darkness through bringing lights together. i think that's the main message of all holocaust survivors. let us -- it is our responsibility as next generationar to make sure that e sacrifice andas whatever happen, would not be for vain, because if we learn from that past ande make a pattern fr better future then we make the past matteret the meaningful to the left of our lives and the rest of the generation and our children and w grandchildren. we hope for a better world and a kinder world to everyone everywhere. us.s up to we wish there were peaceful times to a every person around this world that is not free. so freedom and peace to everyone. thank you so much for being here. >> thank you soot much, yifat. and thank you to charlie as well. amazing such an presentation. and i i know it has been really meaningful to a lot of people. we have been getting really great comments in the chat. i would like to thank all of you in the internet for joining us today. and i would also really like to thank thomas as well for all of his contributions to today's presentation, and for his testimony and his book. everything we do at the museum is made possible through donor support. to those of you watching, we hope you will consider making a donation tous support the museu or becoming a member and joining usus for upcoming programs whic you can check out at the link in the zoom chat. also, please go out and buy "the boy who drew auschwitz" which you can also find at the link in zoom chat. have a great afternoon. we hope to see you all again in another program. thanks for joining us. >> bye. >> thank you so much. thank you, everyone. at least six presidents recorded conversations while in office. hear many of those conversations on c-span's new podcast, presidential recordings. >> season one focuses on the presidency of lyndon johnson. you will hear about the 1964 civil rights act, 1964 presidential campaign. the gulf of tonkin incident, the march on selma, and the war in vietnam. not everyone knew they were being recorded. >> certainly, johnson's secretaries knew because they were tasked with transcribing then of those conversations n. in fact they were the ones who made sure that the conversations were taped as johnson would signal to them through an open door between his office and theirs. >> you will also hear some blunt talk snoonchts jim? >> yes, sir? >> i want a report to the number of people assigned to kennedy when he -- the day he died, and the number assigned to me now. and if mine are not less, i want them less right quick. >> yes, sir. >> if i can't ever go to the bathroom, i won't go. i promise you i won't go anywhere. i will just stay height behind these black gates. >>ess presidential recordings, on c-span now, find it wherever you get your podcasts. there are a lot of places to get political information. but only at c-span do you get it straight from the source. no matter where you are from, or where you stand on the issues, c-span is america's network.