let's begin with the situation at the border. the homeland security secretary yesterday at that site, where many haitians are crossing into del rio, texas, forming a camp right on the u.s. border under the international bridge there. here's what he had to say to those who have crossed and those thinking that they would make the journey. >> the white house has directed appropriate u.s. agencies to work with the haitian and other regional governments to provide assistance and support to returnees. the majority of migrants continue to be expelled under cdc's title 42 authority. those who can under be expelled under that authority and do not have a legal basis to remane will be placed in expedited removal proceedings. dhs is conducting regular expulsion and removal flights to haiti, mexico, ecuador, and northern triangle countries. we are very concerned that haitians who are taking this irregular migration path are receiving false information that the border is open or that temporary protected status is available. i want to make sure that it is known that this is not the way to come to the united states. that is false information. irregular migration poses a serious security risk to the migrants themselves. trying to enter the united states illegally is not worth the tragedy, the money, or the effort. >> the homeland security secretary yesterday down at the border in del rio, texas. now, "the new york times" reporting this morning, why are haitians coming in the numbers that we're seeing? following the catastrophic 2010 earthquake in haiti, tens of thousands of haitians headed to chile and brazil in search of jobs in two of south america's richest countries. as the pandemic has battled the brazilian and south americans economies, work opportunities have proved increasingly scarce. only about a net of 500 haitians gained formal jobs in brazil in the first five months of this year compared with about 2,000 in the same period in 2019. this according to brazil's latest immigration migration statistics. in chile, the exodus of haitians has also been driven by the government's restrictive immigration policy. that is "the new york times" reporting. and then also, haitians on the u.s. border. this also from "the new york times" this morning. the rise in haitian migration began in the months after president biden took office, and quickly began reversing former president donald trump's strictest immigration policies. which was interpreted by many as a sign that the united states would be more welcoming to migrants. in may, the administration extended temporary protected status for the 150,000 haitians already living in the country. but tens of thousands have attempted to cross to the united states since then, despite not qualifying for the program. this morning, what do you a -- do you support or oppose the biden administration's immigration and border policies? we'll go to barry in williamsburg, virginia. you oppose, barry. good morning to you. welcome to the conversation. >> caller: good morning. yeah, i actually am an independent, but i lean left. but i just don't agree with this border policy. but really, all democrats and republicans, they want these immigrants in here for the cheap labor, always. but that's just the ones that run businesses, though, the democrats and republicans. i don't understand what's going on either. because all you got to do is round them up, get them out of here. what ever happened to back in the '70s and '80s where they would come up for two or three months a year and work the crops and go back home. for some reason, our government wants them to stay now. >> all right, barry in williamsburg, virginia. listen to the white house press secretary, jen psaki, talking about the situation at the border at yesterday's briefing. >> one, it's a challenging situation. it's devastating to watch this footage. i think it's important, though, for people to also know that what we're trying to do is also protect people. one, we have been conveying that this is not the time to come. we have been implementing title 42, that's not just about people in the united states. that's also about protecting migrants who would come and come in mass groups and be in mass groups. we are also surging resources and taking a multi-pronged approach. we have been working with the american red cross to bring in much needed resources, working with world central kitchen to bring in meals and expediting repatriation flights to a range of countries in south and central america where people may have come from, if they can be accepted back, and some back to haiti. that is what our focus is on at this point in time. and our message continues to be, as you have heard secretary mayorkas convey, now is not the time to come. for a range of reasons, including we don't have the immigration system up and running in the way we want, including there is still a pandemic and title 42 remains in place. and these are the steps that we're taking in part to protect the border communities as well as the migrants themselves. >> the white house press secretary yesterday. take a look at this image in the "wall street journal" this morning. here is haitian migrants crossing the rio grande back into mexico from del rio, texas, on monday. about 16,000 migrants in recent weeks have gathered under a bridge in del rio. the headline is that the u.s. has started flying these migrants back to haiti. under title 42, which you heard the press secretary mention, which allows the administration to rapidly expel migrants at the border to help prevent the spread of covid-19 in the united states. joe in riverview, florida. joe, you oppose. good morning to you. go ahead. >> caller: good morning. it's just really sad to see that story with all those haitians right there in texas. i was particularly concerned when i saw the image, they were basically corralling them with a horse and a whip. it's sad that that is happening, because if you guys remember when the previous administration was in place, they actually had folks come in, they gave them the protection they needed, and even though it wasn't as good as most people thought, you never saw this kind of images where it appears certain kind of people, and if you remember, haiti has been going through a lot of turmoil. their president got assassinated. then you had the earthquake, then the hurricane. so i think they qualify under the refugee status. put them on planes and send them back is not the right look for the biden administration, particularly an administration that basically had a lot of support from african-americans. this is not going to be a good day. that's all i have. >> okay. james campten, new hampshire. good morning to you. share your thoughts. >> caller: good morning. how are you? i'll give my perspective. from this standpoint, at one time, i was in haiti during the -- during the 1990 period. and before when they did have mass migrations, ended up in guantanamo bay, cuba, for a period of time taking care of after the process, taking care of the haitians migrating, thousands and thousands of them there. now, since that time, i had married one of the migrants back then. and we had a daughter, and now she's a practicing physician in new york city. however, the numbers coming are massive, and i understand that this country cannot absorb waves of people of that nature. so and i realize the conditions they were existing in, in haiti, having been there and having been lived through that turbulent time. so i understand why these people are coming. but there's a limit to what the united states can accept mass migration across the borders. so that's my position. >> and james, what are your thoughts on many of them haven't lived in haiti for a long time, and they migrated after the 2010 earthquake to or before that or after that to south american countries like brazil and chile, like we read about. >> caller: i have great sympathy for that, specifically because my daughter at that time as a physician was operating in haiti, got caught in the earthquake, and was airlifted out by the u.s. military. and i understand the deprivation of that country having lived there, and the horrors that they face there, so i can fully understand people in desperation exiting that location for economic and other reasons. and simply because of the unstable environment that they're living in now. as a person, i would say i have to do the same thing if i were in their position. so human horror. >> james in new hampshire, take a look as we talk to kirk in athens, alabama, look at these images captured by bill belgian of fox news and kassim rasheed, a human rights lawyer. kirk in athens, alabama, you oppose what you're hearing and seeing from the biden administration on immigration. go ahead. >> caller: hi, good morning, greta and america, and thank you for taking my call. i'm completely opposed to , and i don't understand what's going on that our country, our government, our state governors would allow this president to mass migrate so many people to this country. and then don't require any health restrictions and such. and then i also find it particularly curious and interesting that for some reason, the united states has a particular special policy that's anti-haitian immigration, for whatever the reason. and you know, who doesn't understand that of all the people that's migrated to this country since this administration, who is more qualified for refugee status than the haitian people. and why is it that so many other south american, central american migrants can come to this country for seven months but it doesn't become a crisis until it becomes predominantly haitian people. it makes america seem to be racist against black people in particular. i don't understand it, greta. i don't think this country can sustain this type of unfettered, unmanaged, open immigration. it's destroying our country and economy, and everything else, and you know, this president, if you can call him that, is a disaster. and so is this administration and everything they touch, and who didn't know that about joe biden over his 50-year career? that he's a bumbling fool. he's mr. magoo in reality. >> all right, kirk's thoughts in alabama. governor greg abbott of texas with this tweet, requesting a federal emergency declaration from the president for the state of texas in response to the border crisis and the dire situation in that county in del rio, texas. now, a letter to the president from 26 republican governors reads this way. the months-long surge in illegal crossings has instigated an international humanitarian crisis, spurred a spike in international criminal activity, and opened the floodgates to human travers and drug smugglers endangering public health and safety in our states. while governors are doing what we can, our constitution requires the president must faithfully execute the immigration laws passed by congress. not only has the federal government created a crisis, it has left our states to deal with challenges that only the federal government has a duty to solve. our immigration system may be complicated and complex, but the solution to ending the border crisis is simple and straightforward, as president, you have the ability to take action to protect america and end the crisis now. rolo in washington, d.c., good morning to you. welcome to the conversation. go ahead. >> caller: yes, good morning. i'm appalled at all of the imagery that you see from customs and border patrol. they're treating -- you look at that imagery, it beckons back to the miniseries "roots." it's reprehensible, and i want to know where is the congressional black caucus, where is al green from texas, where is maxine waters from california, where is the head of the congressional black caucus? where are the black organizations? these are people of color, people of african descent, and also, you have brown people, hispanic people, who are basically indigenous to those regions as well, descended from aztecs and mayans. they're letting the afghanis over here because the census bureau considers them white. i worked with the census bureau. i also worked with u.s. aid and with haitians and been over to haiti. and a lot of money we allotted to them in 2010 in that earthquake was misappropriated from the upper echelons. it wasn't evenly distributed. there were no programs initiated, and a lot of those people are still suffering from 2010, which of course, is what 11 years ago. and also, our country, we tend to be so humanitarian and so altruistic when it comes to letting people from the middle east or people from eastern europe in. but when it comes to letting people of color, and in particular, people of african desent, we are very, very hesitant to voice our opinions or to be so giving or so welcoming to them. because we still have this image, and we still have this racism that's been embedded in us psychologically through centuries. and it's just unfortunate. and i'm just very appalled at this. and i want to know where are the people from black lives matter, where are the good quote/unquote white liberals who believe in economic parity and who are humanitarian in their thinking. i just want to know where these people are. i don't hear anything from them. thank you. >> okay, so rolo, here's a tweet from joyce beatty, member of congress. i want to express my concern regarding reports of an urgent humanitarian crisis for tens of thousands of displaced haitians at our southern border. i want to be clear that we're a nation of humanity and rule of law. my heart aches for the people of haiti who are currently experiencing unimaginable political and economic upheaval. as we address the current surge of haitian people, it is critical that we approach the situation focused on fairness and the safety of all involved. i will continue to fight to see that refugees are welcome in america, regardless of race or country of origin. this is -- she writes, she's the chair of the congressional black caucus, from joyce beatty, member of congress. her reaction to what she is seeing on the southern border. you mentioned and a previous caller mentioned as well the images of border patrol on horseback with a whip, corralling migrants at the border. the white house reacted to those images yesterday. here's the press secretary. >> there are photographs and reports of border agents on horseback using what appear to be whips on haitian migrants. does the administration view that as appropriate tactic? can you speak to nat? there are people who are upset. >> understandably so. i have seen some of the footage. i don't have the full context. i can't imagine what context would make that appropriate. but i don't have additional details. and certainly, i don't have additional context, april. i don't think anyone seeing that footage would think it was acceptable or appropriate. >> the white house response to those images that a couple of you have mentioned and people were discussing yesterday. it's your turn now to let washington and the decision makers here know how you feel about what you're seeing on the border and the president's and the administration's response to it. ray in fredericksburg, virginia, we'll go to you next. >> caller: hi. can you hear me? >> we can. >> caller: okay, great. i'm originally from sydney, australia. and i came to the united states in 1969. and you wouldn't believe the paperwork i had to do to get into the country. i had to see three doctors, i had to have background investigations done. i had to get a whole bunch of things done. and for people, you know, i had to do all of those things and i was married to an american, by the way, and that's why i wanted to come to america to join him at the beginning. for people complaining now about how difficult it is when people are just crossing the border and don't have to go through the whole paperwork and the whole physical, making sure they're not bringing viruses into the country, i think it is not correct. i mean, because, you know, even back then, in 1969, i had to go through -- the paperwork came to about an inch thick, actually, that was actually done. so i oppose it because, you know, people need to go through the right procedures to do the right thing. >> ray, what's your reaction to hearing stories like this one from a haitian in "the new york times"? a friend of mine told me to cross here. i heard it was easier, said a haitian, 25-year-old haitian who spoke to this reporter. he and his pregnant wife had traveled from mexico near the country's border with guatemala where they had been living after earlier stops over for the last three years in chile, bolivia, peru, and panama. it took us two months to get here on foot, and by bus. >> oh, i think it's terrible, absolutely terrible. but that being said, if they had gone to the embassy and try today go through the correct route to come to america legally, i believe they wouldn't have to go through such, you know, heartache or difficulty. that they had to come here. but that being said, i had to go through difficulties too, but mine was mainly paperwork, going through channels, going to embassies, getting all different things, but there is a way to come here legally, and not bring any -- making sure that -- i guess it was tb that they tested me for back then. i don't exactly know why i had all thee health things done to me, but as i said, i came from sydney, australia, so i mean, what was i going to bring in? i mean, really, but i had to go through the process. so i think people need to go through the process. >> all right. and look at this image in "the new york times" of haitians and other migrants crossing with mattresses on their heads, as well as the rest of their belongings. they write, though haitians still represent a small percentage of border crossers, about 4% of the migrants encountered by border agents in august, their numbers have ballooned in recent months. nearly 28,000 haitians have been intercept bide the border patrol in the current fiscal year which ends september 30th, compared with 4,395 in 2020. 2,046 in 2019. patricia in chicago, good morning to you, patricia. go ahead. >> caller: yes, i was just reading, the law provides any person physically present in the united states or who arrives in the united states irrespective of such person's status, may apply for asylum. for asylum seekers making it to the united states often means they have found safety from persecution, torture, and sometimes death. and then more recently, biden has enacted a $2 trillion infrastructure plan. so that could supply the financial needs and the living conditions. we require affordable housing in the united states. so i think they are protected by the law. and i think they should be treated as civilians and i don't think they should be on horseback torturing these people as though they have no rights to humanity. that's basically what i have to say. >> mary in dayton, ohio. we'll go to you next. >> caller: yes, i was just sitting here listening to the comments. and i just do support president biden's policies, with everything that has been going on within the world, you know, with the pandemic, with the afghanistan, with the immigration, and even at the border, a lot of these things that are happening, yes, we can all do better. i don't like the images that have been seen of them on horseback. i don't approve of any of that. but i also think that the way the media goes about this, it's almost like a knee-jerk reaction to everything that is happening. and it's like, you know, the man's only been in office for eight months. i meanwhile, he came in to a shell of a state department. his immigration policies, there was nothing left for the afghanistans as far as them getting their cards to get over here. i just think we need to put this in a perspective, and you know, like every day it's like a gotcha or, oh, i caught this person doing this, and i just would like to see the media just tamp that down a little bit and let's try to approach this in a humane and in a way that helps people and not hurts people. we're in this country, and watching these people, you know, try to get here. the things that they have to go through just to get here. that right there should tell you something about, you know, who they are as people, and they deserve, if they're coming here to seek asylum, then let us give them that opportunity to, you know, have their case be heard. but all this other stuff, it's so much. it's like you literally have to turn off the tv because every day it's a gotcha moment. and i would just like to see it tamped down. and thank you for taking my call. >> okay. all right, mary. ash in newport, kentucky, with a text. over 1,900 miles from haiti to del rio. they didn't swim there. government needs to take action against those trafficking them to this location. billions of people can claim humanitarian reasons. not enough justification. you can text us with your thoughts. mark, let's hear from you next in philadelphia. hi, mark. >> caller: hi, greta. thanks for taking my call. i just want to put this in perspective. my family, my parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles both sides, came here from italy the last century, greta. through ellis island, they had documents. my parents had to prove or my grandparents had to prove they were married. they had -- my parents and aunts and uncles all had birth certifications. they all went through a physical first thing in ellis island. my family went through the great depression, both sides, greta. didn't get a dime in welfare. these people, i have seen interviews with these people. they're making demands already. they want housing, they want food, they want this, they want that. and they're not even here legally. and i'll tell you what, greta. i'm a democrat. i support president biden. and i support his policies, but you know what, on this, he's way off base. and you know what, remember how trump got elected in 2016? and we are going to see the republicans take over the congress again unless we stop this. thank you. >> mark, do you think, though, the president is doing what he can given the situation? you heard the homeland security secretary. they have already began to deport thousands of them. it started on sunday. the flights are bringing them back to port-au-prince, a country that some of them haven't been in in years. >> caller: right, but greta, they're only deporting single women and single men. they're letting unaccompanied minors and families in. my opinion is forget that. no exceptions. everybody goes back. sorry. >> brett in search light, nevada, hi, brett. >> hello, greta. >> good morning. >> good morning. >> good morning. i got -- i'm wondering where kamala harris is. she's supposed to be the one in charge of this border. and she cracks jokes she hasn't been to europe yet either. you want to know where al green is at, jackson lee, maxine water, they're busy trying to get 3.5 trillion taxpayer dollars they don't care what's going on on the border. they just want your money. they don't care about you or these people that are stuck on the border. it's funny that all these problems that we have on the border and democrats don't call it a crisis. but it is. look how these people are living. it's -- it breaks my heart to see it. and we, as a country, should be better. >> what do you -- what should be happening at this camp under this international bridge in del rio where folks are, children too, are sleeping on makeshift beds made of cardboard, bamboo sticks with cloth over as makeshift tents. what should happen? >> we have empty military bases that would probably cost next to nothing to redo. get a place to at least put these people to get them out of the situation they're in. we don't do that. because we don't want to spend the money. we want to spend 3.5 trillion on a reconciliation bill that doesn't do really anything for anybody. we don't want to pass a 1.2 trillion infrastructure bill until we get the 3.5 of taxpayer money. the people that should be caring about the borders, texas, california, arizona, where are these democrats at? why aren't they speaking up? >> and brett, yesterday -- or sunday the senate parliamentarians said democrats can't include their immigration proposals in this so-called reconciliation package. that's a way for them to clear their 3.5 trillion with 50 votes. it's a way around getting the 60 -- a way around the 60-vote threshold in the senate. here is the democratic leader in the senate, chuck schumer of new york, on the path forward for immigration reform in the wake of the senate parliamentarians decision. >> we will continue our fight to find the best option available to provide immigrants with the chance at one day obtaining lawful residence here in america. the last year and a half have shown how vital our immigrants have been keeping our economy going during a time of crisis. so many risked their lives on the front line of this pandemic but remain excluded from the very same benefits that have kept millions of others secure. we're short of workers from one end of america to the other, one of the reasons, the trump administration dramatically cut back on immigrants in this country. we need them. we need them in our labor force. we need them to continue american vitality. we need them because they're part of the american dream. it's estimated in my city by some that one third of the health care workers at the height of covid, who risked their lives for us, were immigrants. having a strong law that helps our immigrants is vital. the american people understand that fixing our broken immigration system is a moral imperative and an economic imperative. immigration reform has been one of the most important causes of my time in the senate and i will not stop fighting to achieve it. >> democratic leader in the senate, chuck schumer. here is the minority leader, mitch mcconnell, of kentucky on the senate parliamentarians decision to remove immigration proposals from that reconciliation plan by democrats. here he is. >> senate democrats are reminded the rules of this institution will not permit them to shove a massive amnesty for illegal immigrants into a reckless spending spree they want to ram through on a party line basis. our democratic colleagues cannot pretend massive policy changes are mere tweaks. as no less than bernie sanders said a few years ago, quote, the function of reconciliation is to adjust federal spending and revenue, not to enact major changes in social policy, end quote. that's chairman sanders a few years ago. that's a lesson he and his caucus need to relearn. even with the border as insecure as it's ever been, the far left wanted sweeping amnesty and democratic leaders dutifully tried their very best. just goes to show you how radical this legislation is going to be. >> the minority leader mitch mcconnell yesterday on that senate parliamentarians decision to strip out immigration from the $3.5 trillion reconciliation plan. this morning we're talking with all of you about the president's immigration and border policies. do you support or oppose? greg in mechanicsburg, pennsylvania. do you support? >> yes, i do support, not because i support him. i want the democrats to prove to the american public because the main stream media will not do so, that they don't know what they are doing. the more they do to destroy this country, to try to destroy this country, and then you have mr. schumer, senator schumer saying some experts estimate. why doesn't somebody ask how many and what were the estimates? this is -- this is crazy what they are doing. but supposedly he got elected. so american public, despite what the main stream media spin is to protect him from everything negative, sooner or later, the real hunter's dad and willy brown's whore is going to come through. thank you. >> john, we'll go to you next. >> good morning. i live in a town of 35,000 people. and i've been here 30 years. and we're predominantly latino, which is great. but our town has a hospital, a high school, has about three or four elementary schools and we're 35,000 people. so for 200,000 people that came across last month, we're going to need, what, five or six times that? we're going to need six hospitals, six high schools, 15 grammar schools. i don't know where biden just doesn't close the border. why doesn't he close the border and pass amnesty? why doesn't he do the right thing and just close the border like trump did? he had it working. we had people talking, we had americans not competing with people that are desperate for work and they're going to work below wages. we had the wages going up. and now if we have immigration come in there's going to be a battle for wages. i don't get it. the infrastructure needed to build for a million people that have come through this year has got to be staggering. are we building this infrastructure for immigrants or are we building it for americans? the wall worked. i liked the wall for two reasons. one it was passive. and number two, more importantly, it was a one-time expense and it lasted for 50 years. one time you spent it on the wall. we have to go back. all this money we're pouring in year after year after year, could have been solved by the wall. and biden came in and broke it. so biden has got to fix it. and kamala harris, she's got to do something, too. i've been to oakland. i don't know if anybody's been to oakland. that is the filthiest city in the world probably. it has got trash, it's got everything. >> john, you're sharing your experience of migration on your city in santa palo, california. this from a newspaper that writes about the impact of the situation in del rio, texas, on that community. and they write del rio, a bicultural city of 36,000, about 80% of the population is hispanic is used to cross border traffic and it benefits from it with workers and residents going back and forth across the bridge daily. authorities are making an average of 20 to 40 arrests a day, which is overwhelmed the local police and led to overcrowded jails. this according to the texas department of safety south regional director. a quote here from a local resident. the town is too poor we don't have the resources said jump 59 who lives steps away from the river that divides the united states from mexico. more reporting, overall unauthorized immigration has reached levels not seen in two decades. last month alone more than 200,000 migrants crossed the border from mexico, bringing the total for this fiscal year to 1.5 million. more recent the number of haitians making their way through del rio, has made it twice as many crossing the border. let's hear from john in bruster, massachusetts. john, your turn to tell washington what you think. >> be honest with you, i'm having a hard time thinking about the whole thing listening to everybody. yeah, as far as immigration goes, you know, the haitians, i get where they're coming from, and i agree that we need to be a humanitarian country. as far as biden and kamala harris, you know, trying to figure out what to do with all this, i can't even imagine what that's like. as far as, you know, immigration goes, yeah, it would be nice if we could do it all legally, but who's going to set that up and where. we don't have enough anything to do anything in this country. first of all, we're so divided about everything it's going to be difficult to figure out what's right for everybody. but the deal is we know that we need more people in this country to do more work. how we go about that, i'm not sure. the one thing i would like to point out is the media. as far as the media goes, you know, i saw a bumper sticker that said fox news, the rich telling the middle class to blame the poor. where are we really at? as far as immigration goes, we're hurting for people on cape cod. i've got at least 100 friends within ten miles of me dying for help, no help whatsoever. restaurants are shutting down because there's no help for the winter. usually they go through october 12th weekend. what are we supposed to do? i can't believe this, it's crazy. >> more reporting from the border. this is charlotte with the epic times tweeting out haitians and others flooding back across the border to mexico from under the international bridge in del rio, grabbing taxis, walking, anything to get across somewhere else and avoid deportation from the united states. let's hear from james in lawrence, massachusetts. hi, james. >> hi, greta. to my friend in bruster, i'm very familiar with bruster, what are they supposed to do, they got shutdown by the government for a pandemic, this has nothing to do with immigration. and he -- there's a people that he needs down in bruster can't work because of mask mandates and everything else like that and it's ridiculous. i'm pretty familiar with bruster. my comments about the border is this is absolutely 100% a joe biden problem. he started this, not giving the numbers of the people coming across from may was over 200,000 and it's increased by at least that number or more every month since, with 300,000 get aways they call them, they don't even know where the people went. these people at least have been apprehended. the images with the horseback riding, nobody got whipped. the guy was doing it like he would -- pardon the expression or analogy but cutting horses. you'll have one guy chasing two professional football team worth of players in a particular area, he can't keep them out. >> how do you respond to people saying these are not animals, they're humans. >> i understand that. you can't make any analogy in any way, shape or form because they're humans and that is ridiculous as well. this is -- it's an invasion. they're trying to keep the people out, they are not whipping anybody. they're whipping their horses. they're trying to keep it up because when you tell people you can't come here, they're going to still try to come in. how else are they going to do it? they can't use trucks. there's not enough border patrol agents to do it. the numbers reported are totally disingenuous. schumer blaming trump for this is ridiculous when the government had to shutdown everything because of the pandemic. it's ridiculous. i want to tell you something, greta, i'm a life-long democrat. this is ridiculous. in my hometown where i was brought up, $72,000 a year for temporary protective status times how much? 300,000, million? this is ridiculous. they have to stop at some place. where's harris? she's at a football game doing a coin toss. you can say what you want about fox but you're not getting it from the main stream. >> heard your points. ida in new britton, connecticut. hi, ida. >> hi. i don't know what people are talking about as far as biden's policies are concerned, because i don't think we have a policy. the house and the senate have not been able to pass a decent -- a well thought out, decent policy for immigrants for years. they just can't get together on it. i guess one is afraid of the larger numbers, the other one wants to keep it down. i don't know why they can't get a good policy established. that's what has to be done. you don't blame the immigrants, blame the house and the senate for not getting a good policy. that's all i have to say. >> all right, ida. gary in northeast washington state texts us to say the world is in the middle of a pandemic we don't need an open border at all until our world has this covid under control. gary in meridian, connecticut go to you next, gary. >> good morning. by way of background i've been a registered democrat for 54 years. i voted and supported for -- supported joe biden but on the 16th of august i left the democratic party and game an unaffiliated voter. the problem on the border in particular has disturbed me. if we look back at history from 1900 to 1914, ellis island alone was able to process 1,900 people per day and over a 14-year period it came to about 10 million people. that's just ellis island. why with all the modern things we have today like computers we don't have a plan to let these people come to this country in an organized way to get shots, be examined as they did at ellis island. i look at the condominium i live in now and all the workers who have done our roofing, cut our grass, who do all the service are hispanics from south of the border. we need these people. and we're not doing anything in an organized manner to give them the proper inoculations, testing, and have a policy to let them come to this country legally. i'm really disgusted over this whole situation. >> gary more reporting from the border. this is dana beth solman with "reuters," she's tweeting out this video. the scene played out for hours on the mexico side of rio grand as haitians crossed chest high water with small kids and belongings on their shoulders. children were crying, parents fretted where to sleep as night fell over a dusty field with no shelter. let's hear from al in watertown, tennessee. al, good morning. >> thanks for taking my call. the first thing on this whip thing, those are called reins, the reins are attached to a bit in the horse's mouth. that's what -- they're not a whip. and you would never allow someone on the ground to grab your horse's reins because now they have control of your horse. but that's another issue. whether you're talking about the border, afghanistan, the economy, the pandemic, it's not a crisis. this is the plan, the biden administration plan is working in all of those. you can't be 100% wrong on 100% of the issues unless that's your plan. so what they're doing, they're not bringing schoolteachers, nurses, truck drivers, the sort of people we need here. these people that are coming over are illiterate, uneducated and unvaccinated. they're a drag on the welfare system. they're future democratic voters and that's all there is to it. >> this is paul in kentucky -- or in missouri who says why do christianes in the usa have so little compassion for the des desperate christians begging for help. hi, james. >> thanks for taking my phone call. i appreciate that. >> i think one of the biggest reasons why they're not wanting the haitians in there if you look at our own people and all the problems we have out of them, we just don't need that, you know. when you look at some of the afghans and other people they're allowing in, they're going to be contributing to society. and that's one of the reasons why -- >> why wouldn't some of the haitians be contributing to our society? >> they're going to be contributing but they're going to wind up on our welfare system -- >> how do you know that? >> because i've seen it before, and i've worked with it before, and i know how it works. >> why have that blanket statement about an entire group of people? >> because, because we already have the problems out of our own -- i guess you didn't see all the black lives matter burn, loot -- >> you're sounding like you're saying it's because of the color of their skin. >> no, it's because they're a product of their environment. if you take somebody that knows how to live -- >> we're going to move on. kathleen, los angeles. >> good morning. let's see, where do i start? i kind of wanted to respond to the previous caller and say that probably haitians would work a lot harder than black americans, these are cultural issues, okay. also, i want to say that democrat voters, trump haters don't understand life and living. life has been about competition from the beginning of mankind. individual versus individual, group versus group, country versus country. america takes in one million, at least, legal immigrants every year. we have over 22 million, at least, illegal immigrants in the united states since the '80s and -- been here for decades. i've called in and talked about this forever on this show. now we're taking in 200,000 every month and the guy said we don't take in brown folks where there are latinos coming in from central and latin america, 200,000 every month from central and latin america. in los angeles, black americans who are not immigrants, illegal or legal are 40% of the homeless. this is about competition. i've called in and said this a thousand times. in los angeles you can't even find a black american man, legal or illegal, working a construction job. they're all held by brown folks like the other guy who called america doesn't let in brown folks. in los angeles spanish is the predominant language now in the construction industry. and i think if america was so racist why are all these people from africa and haiti and latin america rushing to a racist america? the media is very reactionary, they never go over the data. they never talk about the economics of it. they never talk about how in these major cities controlled by democrats, black americans are suffering who are citizens and have been here for generations. so we're going to bring in other people to compete against black americans. black men need jobs in the construction industry. it's not -- you know, it's like democratic voters aren't even logical. >> okay, kathleen. heard your point. cindy in boston has this to say. president biden should call a joint session of congress and demand immigration reform. jackie in trenton, missouri. what do you say, jackie? >> i'm frankly disgusted with the democrats and the republicans. >> okay. explain. >> because instead of working together and trying to solve the problem of immigration in this country, they're fighting like kids over a tootsie roll. they -- president biden has opened the border and i heard people talking about covid coming in from the border. but it's just not covid. they need to work on an immigration system that's going to be safe for the american people that are still suffering from the first shutdown over covid. which people can't even catch up on their bills from then. and they're not getting no help because all the money is going to the immigrants. and that's all i have to say. they need to get together and work on this, instead of, like i said, acting like a couple kids fighting over tootsie rolls. >> michelle, wisconsin? >> yes, i have just one thing to say. and that is, we are all americans, we should not be fighting over all this. biden is doing a tremendous job. he took on a whole lot after the previous trump presidency, and we should focus on all americans. all americans. >> all right, michelle. to you and others you have to turn down the television so you don't here the echo. omar in brooklyn. what do you say on this? >> good morning. especially black america, i want black america to pay attention to the vitriol that these people are talking about. black people coming to a country that is not destitute by this being -- even further destitute by earthquakes and hurricanes. they let everybody come in from europe and islands all over the world. but they shut the border down, put on cnn, msnbc, that all of us black people is the biggest problem now. this is par for the course in america. and i wanted to call in on september 11th, especially. because here i am in new york city and all of these people were calling up on 9/11 about what they heard about 9/11. you know, it's very hard about people who live in new york city that actually lived through 9/11. i lived through 9/11, i worked at five world trade. my point is -- i'm here 20 years later, the point is this, world trade happened, there was a bubble that popped that most black people lost their jobs in america and we had to recover from that. and then, all of a sudden, the housing bubble popped, blacks lost their jobs during that. all of these economic downfalls black americans in the country. and this problem at the border, this is par for the course. i'm saying about 9/11 for this. i heard a story about a lady -- >> we're going to stick to the situation at the border. ben in reston, virginia. good morning. >> good morning, hi. my position on this is i think that the immigration is a disaster. i think we've been overrun, invaded. we are not responsible for their overflow, their population control, their, you know, public rape game that they're playing and just dump everything on this country. we can't afford it. i mean, please, enough is enough. we need to get the border shut. we need to get these people back the hell out of here. this is -- where is this leading? there's no end to it. it's just going to be a constant, you know, handful -- >> keith from georgia. keith? keith, good morning to you in georgia. >> good morning, how are you? >> good morning. your take on president biden's immigration and border policies? >> well, i think that a lot has to be worked through. it seems like every week we have a different crisis. but for the most part people complaining about the immigrants, they're not coming from a country in such disarray. we're in our houses looking at this on our television. so we're not out in the heat and the water, and we're not being like cattle -- being treated like cattle. i understand, throughout history haitians have always been turned back if most people pay attention. i don't know if it's because the darker you are, the more you're discriminated against. if you are children that aren't eating and you're fleeing death, my family i would be here too. we need to be uncomfortable so we can see what it's like for other people before we judge. that's basically all i wanted to say. >> keith in georgia. getting your thoughts here on the situation at the border. we've got a couple of minutes left here before we end this conversation and move on, though here is the majority leader, chuck schumer, talking about the -- he said, minority leader mitch mcconnell is putting the u.s. economy at risk. the republicans are putting the u.s. economy at risk by not agreeing to raise the debt ceiling, a deadline that looms over washington in the coming days. here is the majority leader. >> both sides, both sides have a responsibility to pay for the debt that we've already incurred. it's always been done in a bipartisan way. unfortunately, last week leader mcconnell announced that the senate republicans are inclined to deliberately turn their back on their obligations, when asked if republicans would block an extension of the debt limit, leader mcconnell amazingly and craveingly said that republicans are united in opposition to raising the debt ceiling. shame. this is the same leader mcconnell who urged democrats and republicans to support raising the debt ceiling when donald trump was president and he was majority leader and he comes up with something as to why it's different, but everyone knows it's not different. in fact, democrats supported, three times, raising the debt ceiling when trump was president. and if my recollection is right, at least one of those times was when the house, the senate and the presidency were controlled by republicans. should republicans careen our country towards a default, our country could actually be plunged into recession, laying off millions. making it harder for people to pay for the food on the table and their mortgages and their rents. shame, shame on the leader. the republican leader. >> chuck schumer, the democratic leader. now here is the republican leader, mitch mcconnell, on the floor talking about raising the tebs debt ceiling. >> we do not have divided government. democrats do not need our help. they have ever tool to address the debt limit on their own, the same party line process they used to ram through inflationary spending in march and plan to use once again this fall. now, look, this might inconvenience democrats. it might delay their next reckless taxing and spending spree, but democrats cannot risk the full credit of our nation to serve their own partisan timelines. democrats decided to govern alone. their unified democratic government must put basic duties ahead of partisan wish lists. if they don't, consequences for our country would be catastrophic. senate republicans would support a clean, continuing resolution that includes appropriate disaster relief and targeted afghan assistance. we will not support legislation that raises the debt limit. >> the party leaders on a deadline for raising the debt ceiling, one that is approaching quickly here in washington. we're going to leave it there on our conversation on immigration, if we missed you, please call back in from 8:30 to 9:00 a.m. eastern time. we'll return to that topic. but coming up, after a short break we'll turn our attention to health care. we'll talk with julie rovner about the $3.5 trillion budget bill that would allow medicare to negotiate over the cost of prescription drugs. and later washington post maria sacchetti discusses the president's immigration policies and the effort to grant undocumented immigrants a path to citizenship. we'll be right back. coming up live today on cspan. the house is back at 9:00 a.m. eastern for general speeches, legislative business begins at 11:00 a.m. members are working on a short-term spending bill to keep the government funded beyond october 1st. on cspan 2 the senate returns at 10:30 a.m. to consider the nomination of margaret strictland to be a u.s. district court judge in new mexico. and alejandro mayorkas and christopher wray are on capital hill. then at 2:30 p.m. executives from facebook and google appear before a subcommittee to testify on competition and privacy among big tech companies. >> announcer: cspan shop.org is cspan's online store. shop now with the cspan fall sale. browse to see what's new. shop our hoodies also fleece blankets. shop the fall sale now through september 21st. your purchase will support our nonprofit operations. go to cspanshop.org. washington journal continues. >> julie rovner back with us this morning. she's joining us to talk about the debate over medicare and prescription drug costs in that reconciliation bill. before we get to those details just in an overview, what do democrats want to do in this $3.5 trillion package? >> they'd like to expand medicaid, the medicaid program for the dozen or so states that have not yet expanded under the affordable care act. the supreme court made that optional, most states joined because the federal government pays 90% of the cost of that, but there are a dozen states, including texas, florida and georgia that have not yet expanded so there are several million people still not getting the benefits of the affordable care act. they want -- they increased some of the subsidies for people who buy coverage through the aca earlier this year as part of the covid relief bill. they would like to extend them or make them permanent. congress wants to expand medicare, medicare doesn't cover dental, eye coverage. they want to add those. and finally they want to expand home and community based care. this is part of a long-term care issue that congress has been grappling with for decades and every time they try to do something the price tag makes them sit back and think we'll do it another day. it's possible it could happen here. the way to pay for these, is the prescription drug, it would save the federal government a lot of money it now spends on prescription drugs. >> how would that work? >> the main ideas is to let medicaid negotiate the prices of prescription drugs which it's not allowed to do now. congress added prescription drug coverage to medicare in 2003, it was mostly a republican bill at the time congress was run by republicans and there was a republican president. and one of the things they did in that bill in order to not cause the drug industry to come out after them was say that the federal government could not negotiate the prices. well, that has caused a lot of price inflation for prescription drugs and everybody complains. everybody who pays for prescription drugs from patients up to employers and the federal government complain that prescription drugs cost too much. so there's a bipartisan effort to do something about drug prices intensely for the last three or four years. it was a major goal of former president trump, who didn't quite manage to get it over the finish line. so it's something that both democrats and republicans want to do, but the drug industry is quite opposed to the idea of cutting back on their profits. >> how much profit are we talking about? >> lots. the drug company makes billions and billions of dollars. what we're talking about here is a relatively small number of drugs that medicare would be able to negotiate for, drugs that don't have current generic competition. under most proposals there would be a limit that would be based on what those drugs cost in other developed countries where they have price controls. and just those sort of relatively small things could save hundreds of billions of dollars for the federal government. >> would it also save medicare recipients money? >> yes, it would. and that's a big part of this. the way that the medicare prescription drug benefit is created in part d, which is where most of the outpatient drugs are, there's what's called a catastrophic cap. so as a patient you only have to pay a certain amount but once you exceed that cap you still have to pay 5%. in 2003 there weren't many drugs that were expensive enough that that 5% could be a lot of money but now there are. so a lot of medicare patients are paying a lot of money for their prescription drugs and one of the goals of this is to help them save money. >> we have a line for medicare recipients this morning we want to hear your stories 202-74 8-8003. democrats 202-748-8000. republicans 202-748-8001. and independents 202-748-8002. you can also text us at the number of 202-748-8003. julie, talk about expanding medicare benefits. which benefits are we talking about and how much money would that save recipients? >> that could save recipients a lot of money depending on how they do it. there were two competing desires for expanding medicare this year. one was to lower the eligibility age from 65 down to 60. and the other one was to add benefits that medicare does not have. medicare hasn't really changed all that much since it was first created in 1965 when it emulated what was your average blue cross blue shield policy that at lot of people in the private sector had. but obviously insurance has changed for people in the private sector much faster than it's changed for medicare. medicare didn't have an outpatient prescription drug benefit until 2003, didn't start until 2006. so medicare covers many things but doesn't cover dental care, eye care, hearing care until recently it didn't cover much in the way of preventive care. that's something congress has managed to add. those are benefits used a lot by senior citizens and they could end up saving people a lot of money that they now have to pay on their own. >> and lowering the age of medicare to 65 to 60, that's included in this democrats' $3.5 trillion package? >> it's not. they decided to go with the benefits instead to increase the benefits rather than lower the eligibility age. >> if they lowered the eligibility age, what would have been the impact on that on taxpayers? >> it would have helped a lot of people who are currently paying a lot for their insurance. although the increase in subsidies they gave for people to buy coverage through the affordable care act can help those people between 60 and 65 whose premiums are higher. but that's something i think people who are agitating for medicare for all would like to come back to at some point. it's something that president biden endorsed on the campaign trail. >> what are progressives saying about this proposal as it's drafted right now. >> progressives are actually pushing for the expanded benefits. the lead proponent of this is bernie sanders in the senate chairman of the budget committee and the lead backer in the senate for medicare for all. this is something he wants to do. >> you mentioned the reaction from industry to what democrats are pushing. i want to show people a recent pharma ad on negotiating prices and medicare and have you talk about it on the other side. >> politicians say they want to negotiate medicine prices in medicare. but make no mistake. what politicians mean is that they'll decide which medicines you can and can't get, regardless of what your doctor prescribes. regardless of which medicine has been working. regardless of what new treatments become available. and it could lead to long waits in medicare for new treatments and cures. call congress tell them not to play doctor with your medicine. paid for by pharma. >> julie rovner is that true? >> this has been the argument that the drug companies have been making since the 1980s. the first big bill i covered when i started covering health care in congress was passed in 1988 and repealed in 1989 for reasons mostly unrelated to the drug benefit but not completely. it was congress's first attempt to add a drug benefit to medicare and the drug industry argued at the time if you don't let us make unlimited profits we won't be able to discover the next generation of drugs. this has been the argument all along, if we limit how much prescription drug makers can take in, then we limit the -- our ability to have new drugs going forward, and it's been a constant tug of war. since then we saw it to some extent in 2003 when the republicans were trying to add a drug benefit. we're seeing it now. it's basically the exact same argument. >> let's go to oscar in california. oscar, welcome to the conversation. go ahead. >> good morning, good morning, good morning. good morning, greta, thank you so cspan. what really stuck out in my mind listening to mitch mcconnell, and it relates to the $3.5 trillion and medicare. is this, quote, reckless taxing and spending. i would say it's reckless to not tax and spend. and i don't think there's a single american, never mind kentucky, but basically the rest of the united states that doesn't think that these billionaires, these fortune 100, fortune 500 companies getting away with paying no taxes, i don't think there's a single american that doesn't think they need to increase their taxes and they can build in a tax incentive if they lower drug pricing. you know, it's not the money be with -- not the money be with it's the money. thank you. >> it's always the money. who's going to pay more, who's going to pay less, that's what congress is there to decide. >> julie, could this proposal be nixed by the senate parliamentarian or has it been ruled already as legitimate? >> unlikely this would be nixed. this clearly has budget implications and it's clearly being done -- i mean, congress has made many, if not most of the changes to medicare over the years as part of budget reconciliation bills. that's kind of what budget reconciliation is for, to alter mandatory programs as opposed to the annual spending bills. so the reconciliation process was designed to make budget related changes to programs like medicare and medicaid. and that's what they're doing here. >> the prescription drug pricing, how popular is this with americans? >> extremely popular. that's why both democrats and republicans say they want to do something about prescription drug prices. the trick is doing it in a way that will not cause these enormous multi-million dollar negative ad campaigns from the drug industry but doing it in a way that will save money and lower prescription drugs. the u.s. is the only nation that does not limit drug prices, most of the rest of the world does. that's why the prescription drug industry is so agitated the u.s. could join the rest of the world in limiting how much it pays for prescription drugs. >> which democrats are opposing this plan? >> there are a number of moderate democrats in the house. in fact, this is the drug part of the bill didn't make it through the house energy and commerce committee last week because three democrats voted against it. so the amendment failed on a 29-29 tie. they would like to do a much more limited package of prescription drug benefit and changes, mostly aimed at part b drugs, drugs delivered by doctors in their offices or in hospitals. they can be some of the most expensive drugs. anti-cancer drugs and the like. but those are not the drugs that most people end up using. so there would be a lot of relief for a few people with that sort of thing. which is not to say it won't happen, it won't still end up in the house bill, but they only have a couple of votes to spare if none of the republicans are going to join them and at this point it looks like none of the republicans are going to join them. >> mary in nevada, democratic caller. >> morning. i agree with the prior caller. mitch mcconnell i saw him on fox news talking about the democrats wanting to give free giveaways. and he fails to speak about the free tax giveaways to billionaires, 2 trillion not paid for, on our debt. to giving money to people who don't even need it. and as for medicare, are you aware under the trump administration the push to privatize medicare and essentially if you're someone who had traditional medicare to put you into one of the private advantage plans? >> julie? >> well, this has been sort of a push for the last 20 years or so. republicans would like to see more private plan involvement in medicare. there's already an enormous amount, there's something called medicare advantage, it's currently optional but an increasing number of people who are used to being in managed care plans in their working years are opting for these plans partly because many of them they get paid more by the federal government are able to provide some of these extra benefits, things like dental care, like vision care, like hearing care. so they can -- in exchange for agreeing to only use a certain networks of doctors and hospitals, you can get more benefits in most parts of the country with medicare advantage and that's what a lot of people are opting to do, but currently it is still optional, you can remain with the traditional medicare package which allows you to see any provider that accepts medicare, which is most of them. you can buy a medicare supplement insurance policy that will help you pay the rather large medicare deductibles and copayments or opt into an advantage plan. republicans would like to see more of that and less of the government side. democrats are -- believe there should be a medicare advantage but don't believe people should be pushed into it. >> jerry in chester, virginia, independent. >> yes. >> morning, jerry, got to turn down your television. >> sorry, i forgot. hello? >> yes, we're listening. >> julie, good morning. we all know that drug prices are too high. the united states are subsidizing the rest of the world in the their drug prices. europeans have price controls, mexico, canada. that's a mute point at this time. so what i'm worried about, i was watching the tom hartman show yesterday and they had the president physicians on national health plan on and she was talking about that the -- that liz fowler in the current administration, she was in obama's administration, they're pushing this new model, this new cmmi model of, i think it's called direct contact entities, where they're pretty much bribing medical providers. you know, without even -- i don't think they even notify the patients -- >> julie, do you know anything about the last part of what he's talking about? >> yes. cmmi is the center for medicare and medicaid innovation. it was created under the affordable care act to experiment with different types of payment possibilities. liz fowler the head of that agency, who did work in the obama administration and helped write the affordable care act, is -- it's basically her job to test out new payment systems that this is something that both democrats and republicans are anxious to do, to find more efficient ways to better sort of create that balance between what the government pays and what patients get. and some of these experiments have worked pretty well and some of them have not worked well. but that's kind of the idea behind the center is to figure out what does work and what doesn't. >> also, talk about how he started out that americans pay more than others in other countries and we're subsidizing drug prices around the world. >> that's absolutely true. that's why the prescription drug companies are fighting so hard because the united states is the last place they can basically make unlimited profits. >> this is from the health and human services department on september 9th. americans spend more than 1,500 per person on prescription drugs and pay prices that are far higher than any comparable nation. prices for brand name drugs are rising faster than inflation. many americans do not take medications as prescribed because of their cost with resulting harm to their health care and health. lack of competition is a key factor. the overall goal is to foster innovation, increase competition and improve the market viefrmt in pursuit of reduced drug spending for consumers and throughout the health care system. what are they saying here? >> well, this is everybody's goal. they want for people to be able to pay less at the prescription drug counter, they want insurance companies to pay less to get the drugs. they want the prescription drug industry to continue to make enough money to research and develop the next generation of drugs and finding that balance is really, really hard. and that's been the goal for the last -- i've been doing this for 35 years. i've been covering health care on capitol hill. and this has been a continuing theme the entire time i've been covering health care. >> elliott in rockville, maryland, independent. >> good morning. just a comment here, it's really mind boggling people have to choose between eat and buy food and pay the drug prices for their loved one, their parent, their kids who suffer, keep talking millions and millions of bonuses every month and year. it's just mind boggling. this is not capitalism. it's just theft and people's lives we're talking about. thank you. >> we'll go to george in virginia. medicare recipient. hi, george. >> good morning, how are you this morning? >> morning. >> listen, besides having medicare i have a supplemental insurance to help cover the cost of my medications which can be a little bit high. my question is this, over the past couple of years since i've been on medicare and had the supplemental insurance, i've seen my supplemental insurance cost for my premiums go up 50% just over a three-year period. and i've also heard the drug companies are saying well, if we are going to be limited on what we can charge for medications we're just going to up your premiums every month and i'd like to hear some information about that if there's any information out there on that. thank you? >> okay, george. >> there's lively competition among the medicare drug plans so they can't increase the premium too much because then you can switch plans. when my mom had medicare and had medicare part d, the prescription drug insurance part of it, i switched her plan almost every year. so the medicare actually has one of the few really good websites that let you compare, you can put in the drugs that you take and the doses and you can see pretty clearly, you know, which of the various plans that are available to you is going to be the best value. so that's sort of the break on increasing premiums, but it's true as the prices of drugs go up, so will the amount of premiums that beneficiaries have to pay for them. it's one of the reasons why voters, when you ask them, what their top priorities are, prescription drug prices are very much near the top and have been for the last several years. >> what about the overall cost of health care for americans, the front page of "the new york times," sarah cliff has a piece, painful reminder of baby's death, a $257,000 in bills. small bills from a hospital stay for their baby, for this couple that they -- that sarah cliff previews, a daughter born premature and loses her life weeks later. and their reminder is just these small bills that start rolling in. >> yes, well the cost of health care is one of the most -- it's one of the largest problems facing the united states right now. there are -- that's where the money is, it's almost a fifth of the u.s. economy at this point. and the amount that americans are having to pay for health care is just -- it's too much for the vast majority of people and something that congress has been grappling with. again it's very difficult, there are a lot of vested interest who give a lot of money to members of congress and also, as we point out with the drug industry, complain if they're not allowed to earn the money complain they're not going to develop new treatment and cures and drugs. it's a constant push and pull on what the u.s. is going to do about health care. it's also become a very partisan issue. democrats would like to see more government involved in health care. republicans would like to see less government involved in health care. >> wanda in california, democratic caller we'll go to you. >> yes hp hello. my name is wanda. and my problem is not just the price of these prescription drugs, i want every last one of you guys to check your prescriptions. they're not even fda approved. check them out. check out the medication that you are taking. it's not fda approved. >> julie rovner, any thoughts on that? >> prescription drugs have to be fda approved or they can't be dispensed. there are over the counter medications, some are drugs, some are not, that the fda does not for instance regulate supplements and that's a whole separate issue we could spend an hour on about fda oversight of vitamins and drug supplements. so there are things that people take that they consider to be drugs that the fda does not consider to be drugs or the fda is not allowed to regulate. if you get it behind the prescription it has to be approved. >> have programs such as humana made any impact? people struggling should apply for these programs and apply for these programs and their states' medicare? >> these are medicare advantage programs. if you are willing to abide by the restrictions they have you can only see providers in a certain network, then you can actually save a fair bit of money. one of the tricky things about medicare advantage is if you go into a medicare advantage plan and you want to go back later to traditional medicare you can do that but you might not be able to buy a medicare supplemental plan to help you with the other out of pocket costs that come with traditional medicare. it is easy to get caught. >> john in louisiana, republican. >> caller: good morning. just c

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