organization's previous president passed away earlier this month. >> [indiscernible chatter] >> all right. i'm going to take my mask down so i am more understandable, but we are -- thank you. good morning. i'm linda feldman, washington bureau chief of the christian science monitor. before i introduce today's guest of a president liz schuler of the afl-cio, i would like to say a few words about her predecessor richard trumka who passed away. he used to appear annually at the monitors breakfast right before labor day, and in his 12 years as the labor federation president, he always came with copious talking points and tons of energy, ready for a hearty debate with reporters. some might say an argument. we miss him dearly and as i know you do very much at the afl-cio. let me welcome ms. schuler and start by saying i am glad to have monitor breakfasts in person again. this is our first in almost two years and thank you for helping us break the ice. a bit of background about president schuler. she grew up in a union household. her flower -- father was a longtime member of the electrical workers local 125 at portland general electric. her mother worked in the service and design department. ms. schuler attended the university of oregon, working at the electric company in the summers before earning her degree income of all things, journalism. after graduation she returned to portland general electric to organize workers who were in nonunionized clerical roles, like her mother. ms. schuler went on to lead organizing efforts for the international brotherhood of electrical workers in oregon and california. in 2009 she became the first woman to serve as afl-cio secretary-treasurer, the number two official. on august 5, after the sudden passing of mr. trumka, she became the first woman president of the afl-cio. about 10 days ago, you were elected by the executive council to fill out his term as i understand it right. so welcome. now, for the ground rules. we are on the record. please, no live blogging or tweeting, no filing of any kind while the record is underway. once the session ends at 10:00, there is no embargo. we will email a rough transcript to all reporters here shortly after we conclude. as many of you know, if you would like to ask a question, send me a signal and i will call on as many of you as time permits. now, president schuler, if you would like to make opening remarks, the floor is yours. >> thank you so much, linda. good morning, everyone. good to see you. thank you for being here. i know this event has become a labor day tradition, and we intend to keep it. i know how much you have enjoyed interacting with richard trumka, who enjoyed this breakfast. you are right, he enjoyed the debate. he has set a high bar for me certainly, and it is my second week on the job, so hopefully you will keep that in mind this morning. he did this 12 times, year after year, since he was elected president. i will say that i miss him personally. it has been a little over three weeks since his passing. i lost a working partner of 12 years. we worked side-by-side with one another. i'm doing what every service tells you not to do, which is compartmentalized. we are still grieving at the afl-cio family but we are pushing forward. rich would want us to. we shouldn't stay still, right? so we are taking it one step at a time. i am humbled and honored to be president of the afl-cio. we are the largest organization of working women in the country. other than the u.s. military, we are the largest job-training network in america. and we are leading long-overdue structural transformations. i believe in my bones that the labor movement is the single most powerful force for progress . i'm not talking about institutions, i'm talking about workers coming together to make change in our workplaces and society. that is what we do the labor movement. through the worst public health crisis in a century, the worst economy since the great depression, working people stepped up. we carried communities through the pandemic. we are responding to ida as we speak. we are helping evacuation efforts in afghanistan. we were, are, and always will be essential. this is a moment of tremendous opportunity. from tech to transportation, working people are speaking up and taking risks to create real change. public approval of unions is at a nearly 50 year high, and i know we will get the numbers shortly for this year, but 65% of americans, including 71% of young people, approve of unions. and they see unions as a solution to our broken economic system. because of the labor movement's efforts, we have the most pro-worker administration in history, and a working majority in congress. so we must meet this moment by building a modern labor movement, a movement that is open and accessible and diverse. a movement that keeps pace with the changing economy. the great resignations. a movement in every sector and community, with women and people of color at the center. where every worker has the right to a good, sustainable union job. and all of that depends on putting working people where we belong, and that is at the center of policy and the center of the national conversation. we are the counterforce to skyrocketing inequality. we balance the economy. working people want to join us. m.i.t. did a study, and 60 million workers would form a union today if they felt like they were free to do so, because right now, you know workers are intimidated and harassed when they try to form a union. including half the tech workforce, which was sort of surprising that half the tech workforce actually is interested in joining unions. 60 million workers want in. why isn't the labor movement growing? that is the question. because the rules are broken. today in america, it is easier for a corporation to stop a union than it is for a worker to form one. and that is why we need the pro-act, now known as the richard trumka proactive. and the public sector proactive right alongside it. the pro-act is the center of our agenda and these are the policies we voted for in the 2020 election. we are putting our full might of the movement into voting rights, the john lewis voting rights act and the for the people act. we are championing the budget resolution with childcare tax credits. and the first several federal -- first ever federal paid medical and family leave benefit. it includes a long-overdue path to citizenship for immigrant workers. and a major provision of the pro act, real penalties against employers who interfere with our right to form a union. this would all represent major progress. and progress is what i am labor -- laser focused on as afl-cio president. to meet this moment, we are going to be bold. we are going to be inclusive. every working person in every job can have a place in our movement. our doors are wide open, so we invite people to join us as we take on issues like fairness, racial justice, gender equity, all of which are part of a modern labor movement. we are going to innovate, because just focusing on protecting what we have is far more dangerous than taking risks. for example, technology is especially changing how we work. we don't want it to replace us or exploit us. we want technology to complement and support the human beings on the job. and we want to co-create that future. that is why i was proud to work with unions in every sector to launch the afl-cio technology institute, in partnership with some well-known academic institutions, massachusetts institute of technology, carnegie mellon, we are working with stanford, to make sure we have a worker voice and perspective in the creation of technology. it is the center of gravity, we think, at the afl-cio to co-create, innovate, incubate new ideas and really innovate growth. i also have the privilege to launch next up, which is a program focused on bringing more young workers into our movement, which is a goal that will guide my presidency every single day. a modern labor movement and build -- can build an america where every working person has the access to the life-changing power of a good sustainable union job. no exceptions, no one left behind. that is my number one priority, that is my vision, that is my promise to american workers. with that, i guess we will open it up for questions. >> i will start with a few questions then we will move to reporters. i wanted to ask you about the pro act. it has passed the house but it faces long odds in the senate. is there a realistic way to work around that roadblock and if not pass it as a piece of legislation, somehow do things legislatively that will get its provisions into law? >> yes. we need the pro act, that is the bottom line. we have been fighting for the pro act for a very long time because not only the pro act, the predecessor legislation was similar and we know the economic system is broken in this country. working people no longer can just work one job and get by. they are working two and three jobs. one job should be enough. for people to support their families and put a roof over their kids' heads and be able to make it at this country. as i said, the country sees this. they are fed up. 65% support joining a union. we want to build that support, both in washington and outside of washington. so yes, we are fighting for the pro act in congress and we will continue to push to get those 50 plus one votes and push to reform the filibuster, and we are going to build support outside washington, which i was doing in arizona couple days ago . the grassroots is really where the action is, where the pressure builds, because we know the u.s. senate response to its constituents for the most part. if we don't clear a pathway to free up the agenda that americans voted for by getting rid of these arcane rules in the senate, then i think we will see the results in the next election. people are anxious to get the voting rights legislation passed, to get the infrastructure bill passed, to get the pro act passed. we will continue to push inside and outside of washington. >> i know you did an event yesterday, a roundtable event with labor secretary marty walsh and workers involved in organizing campaigns around the country. did you glean anything from that event, any insights? >> i love spending time with workers, i will say that. that is where i prefer to be. that is why i wake up in the morning, what i wake up in the morning think about. you are workers. >> we work very hard. >> absolutely. so listening to their stories renewed my focus and the force with which i bring to every day on the job, which is getting that pro act passed and being a voice for working people who are getting a raw deal. i remember hearing a woman named elizabeth, who was a research assistant at u.c. in the bay area. she was talking about the work that researchers do and the fact that it is undervalued, that these big universities can't do their work without the research scholars coming in. they wanted good wages and good benefits, but they also wanted a voice on the job and she said a grievance process, because sexual harassment and discrimination is a huge challenge and barrier for these research assistants whose work is overseen often by people who have a say over what pathway their career takes. so they feel a lot of pressure from that work environment and they don't feel like they have recourse. that is what she raised. we also heard from a nurse at mission hospital in north carolina, who had a very hostile organizing campaign before they were able to get their voice on the job. nurses coming in the middle of a pandemic, who are on the front lines, providing essential care, who desperately wanted a voice on the job but were met with hostility at every turn. the hospital did what every company seems to want to do, which is hire unionbusting consultants to basically thwart the organizing efforts and voices of the workers that were on the job. so they fought through it, thank goodness. they won their campaign and are now able to raise issues of safety and concerns on the floor of the hospital without fear of reprisal. that is what i think most people want, is the ability to have a voice on the job without being afraid, and to come together with their coworkers. that is what unions are. a collection of people who basically want rights, respect, decent wages and benefits. that is what we think a modern labor movement should really be. workers in every sector, every kind of job, should have that right. that is up to us in the labor movement to show the world we are up to the task. >> in many ways the economy is quite strong. in a strange way, does that kind of hurt your effort to do more for workers right? >> i don't know. every worker i talk to these days doesn't see the economy being strong, right? most people have been falling through the crack's. we have seen the social safety net, the lack of, during the pandemic. women especially, who have lost jobs disproportionately in the pandemic, i think more than a million more jobs than men. the lack of child care, elder care, care for the differently abled, the fact that we have no support for working families who are trying to get by. luckily, we have investments on the table with this build back better agenda that we hope will come to the rescue shortly for working families, but i think for the most part, workers are still getting a raw deal. the jobs in america have been consistently downgraded. it is a race to the bottom. as unions have declined, so has the rest of the come the types of jobs. we used to be the tide that lifted all boats. we would raise the floor. as unions have declined, we have seen a hollowing out of the middle class. so that is why we talk about record inequality in this country. we have the haves and have-nots and very little in between. i was working with organizers on the amazon campaign in bessemer, alabama, talking to them about what it meant to them to have their ceo who makes in seven seconds what the average amazon employee makes in a year. that is not right. there should be a way for workers to come together and actually get their fair share of the wealth they are creating for companies like amazon. they are working in horrifically challenging conditions. they are being actually managed by an app you show. up to work and you don't even have a human being you are interacting with. if for some reason the app gets the story wrong or there is a flaw in the algorithm, you have no recourse. that is what really drove those workers to come together. >> one more from me and then we will go to john from newsmax. you are the first woman president of afl-cio, which was the headline. how meaningful is that to you personally? and to the labor movement? >> to me personally, it is meaningful because i came up through the labor movement. i started at 23 years old in my local, as an organizer of clerical workers who are predominantly women. so i know what it means to see a woman in leadership, how inspiring that can be. i take it with great responsibility, the women's shoulders i have stood on. i think of the women organizers and activists and leaders over time who have paved the way, and it is an incredible opportunity and responsibility that i take very, very seriously. i will say that women are half the workforce. we will be half the labor movement officially in a couple years, and so i think it is incredibly important to signal that the labor movement is a movement for women. not many people realize, as i set off the top, that 6.5 million women in the labor movement, we are the largest organization of working women in the country. not many people see us that way. i think we need to do more to show women that the labor movement is for them. >> one more from me. i lied. richard trumka brought you in as the secretary-treasurer in 2009 when he became president. you worked with him very closely and he was your mentor, i would assume. so in your 12 years as the number two at afl-cio, what did you glean from him? he was kind of a larger-than-life figure, very macho, kind of this pennsylvania guy, hunting -- >> miner. >> kind of macho. yet in our last breakfast with him, we talked about how important it was to mentor women and treat them with respect and bring them up in leadership. i wonder if you have any specific examples of how you learn from him and how he mentored you. >> sure, absolutely. yes, rich was a mentor and a partner and we worked side-by-side together for 12 years. i learned a lot. being in the federation is a different role and responsibility than being in a union. i came out of the electrical workers union and also had an incredible mentor in the president at the time, ed hill, who taught me a lot. i would say the job of federating, as they say, is a difficult job because you have 56 unions around a table who will all have different opinions and cultures. the job is to really find unity and figure out how we align and keep moving forward together. so that was what we spent a lot of time together talking about, finding ways to bring those folks around the table and as they say, sometimes herding butterflies is not easy. that was something i learned a lot as far as the ins and outs of how we bring unions together. >> how do you do that? >> what is the secret sauce, right? it is a lot of listening, a lot of finding common ground, mediating. and having a vision that 56 different unions can rally around and feel inspired by. there are certain things that only the federation can do, right? if you have individual unions out there advocating of course for the issues that matter most to their unions, but in terms of the common bread and butter of the labor movement, there is nothing like having that center of gravity to bring more power to, whether it is a policy proposal, mobilization, i think about politics as one good example of how we bring everyone under one plan that we can mobilize and educate and move people and -- in workplaces around the country. it is difficult to do that individually. another aspect of the federation, we have this incredible network and infrastructure of state afl-cio's and city level afl-cio's we call central labor councils that are in every major city in the country. there is no other organization that has the capacity to move people, that can be in workplaces, in every sector of the economy. i think that is unique to the federation. that is something our affiliates really value him along with our community partners and our allies. they end up being the hub for activity in the community, for economic justice for working people writ large. >> speaking of politics, to your right is john from newsmax, who has an encyclopedic memory for politics. >> i already learned this. we were talking about or gone, my home state, and he gave me a history lesson. when i was a young child remembering our former governor. >> who went from journalism to elected politics. >> john, go ahead. >> all right. speaking of history, in 2008 i asked president trumka about the controversy raging in which the secret balloting union elections would have been eliminated. that was something he favored, many people in the democratic party such as former senator mcgovern spoke out against. the issue resurfaces in discussion. do you see that coming back and what is your position on that? >> i think the pro act is our focus and the way union elections are run now, the laws are absolutely badly broken. we see example after example, as you referenced yesterday, workers talking to the secretary of labor about when they try to stand up for their rights and have their voice heard, they are basically thwarted at every turn. companies know that they can interfere and break the law with impunity without being penalized. if we don't have real enforcement and real financial consequences, that's going to keep happening and the law of the land, when it was conceived, gave workers that right to come together and organize a union. that is the law. it has been broken year after year after year and eroded over decades, so we need labor law reform and we think proactive is the best way to get there. >> that does not preserve the secret ballot in union elections. liz: the secret ballot enables people to vote on an election without fear because they won't have someone looking over their shoulder or i think people, just like we vote in democratic elections, we like to vote in secret so we are not feeling intimidated or will be harassed. i think there are some parallels there. union elections and democratic elections where you should be able to have the right to exercise and have the freedom to cast a ballot without fear and intimidation. >> the other question i wanted to ask and i asked president trumka in the audio and that -- odd number years before the election, a senate evenly divided, a house that is the closest in division since 1958, my question is who are your top targets? i ask that question of president trumka every two years. where are you going to be most involved, against, and for him? liz: the agenda we are voting on now with investments in infrastructure, certainly on voting rights, these are the issues our members care about and we are issue-driven. that's what our politics are all about. what are the issues and where are the people voting standing on those issues? we usually do a voting scorecard that helps us gauge where elected officials stand. i think that's where the infrastructure comes in that i talked about at state and local level where endorsement decisions get made. we are very much a grassroots movement and so those targets then get developed by the people who are actually in those communities. as far as nationally, we are starting to put together our plans and we will probably know more in terms of specifics as time goes on. but the point is workers want to hold elected officials accountable on an agenda they voted for. right now, that agenda is being blocked by arcane rules in the senate and we believe voters will take that into consideration for the next election. >> a final follow-up on this -- president trumka once said at this breakfast that then governor walker of wisconsin was public enemy number one. who is public enemy number one today for the unions? liz: right now, it's corporations that don't respect workers rights. >> public enemy number one? liz: there are many corporations that value their employees and treat their workers with respect and allow a voice on the job and then there are corporations that are blatantly anti-union and fight the will of their workers to then they'll. -- toussaint and nail. we see this economy is broken and we want to see labor law reform. but there's a lot they can be doing to invest in their workforce and we can be great partners or we can be tremendous adversaries. you are seeing right now a strike going on with nabisco. in four or five cities, workers are on the picket line as we speak, who hasn't been backing down on snacks, oreos, ritz crackers, yet the workers themselves who make all the snacks, who make the companies profitable are facing take backs in their contracts, saying there's only so much we can stand. we want affordable health care, we want to be treated with respect. look at a company like that and you say why do things have to be so divided? you are making record profits coming out of the pen from it, why not share your success with the -- coming out of the pandemic, why not share your success? >> two different questions. one on mexico. vehicle sales have been very active trying to include mexico to do more to respect workers rights. can you talk about what you would like to see in mexico in terms of the mexican government's handling of the rights of workers to see contracts? liz: sure. this was rich's passion, as you know. he has been the lead voice on this policy for a number of years and we had a big success with the usmca in that we had the language negotiated to actually give enforcement to the us government, which the ustr exercised for the first time in the last few weeks with the uaw case. we are thrilled to see this law is actually being utilized as it was intended. and the ustr, i believe we need a worker centered trade policy, which we are in lockstep with that vision. that we should not just be looking at a race to the bottom and that trade policy can be used as a tool to lift up wages and standards for all working people. we have certainly had our challenges in mexico, primarily because of the protection contract that you probably know a lot about having been to this debate. the goal was to work with the government to eliminate those contracts and to have free and fair trade unions as a centerpiece of democracy in order to bring the economy up. that is what we have been doing. we are working with the ustr to make sure workers voices, workers perspectives, are viewed in every decision we make and every policy we advocate for. >> would you like to see -- in terms of bessemer, what should happen? that election should be rerun. liz: that was like four questions in one. i heard bessemer and i forgot about the first one. >> gig workers. liz: the proactive would put the abc test that was passed in california into law, which is what we think is the baseline because there's so much misclassification going on. there is a new business model a lot of platforms are using to script labor laws. we would like to see companies like uber are planning on going there company based on a low load strategy, we oppose that. but we also recognize the economy it changing around us. there is a need for dynamism and flexibility and to grow and coke create these kinds of policies, but the important thing is to have worker perspective and worker voice every step of the way and that is what is missing at companies like uber. they don't have a seat at the table, they don't have any kind of leverage or enforcement power. when you are working for a platform business as an independent contractor, often you are not given the rights that go along with employment, including protection from discrimination and harassment. workers compensation. we need to as a labor movement, make sure as the economy is changing, that we put the guardrails in place that we have so long enjoyed with the traditional employment relationship. we need to make sure people are able to make a decent living but are also free from harassment and discrimination and if they are hurt on the job are exposed to unsafe conditions that they have a way forward. that is our job as a labor movement to make sure that happens. >> i have three questions. liz: i better write these down. >> thank you for doing the breakfast. hopefully after this, these three questions won't be my last. you just talked eloquently about the need to press the proactive, but you have a lot of senate mcgrath to have come out in favor like senator manchin but that are opposing jettisoning the filibuster. what do you tell senate democrats who are with you on the proactive then when the time -- on the bow act, but -- the pro act. those are the same democrats that rely on unions. in west virginia, the labor union is big and they are backing senator manchin. what do you say to them who support the bill but not the actual mechanism needed to pass the bill? liz: do you want to give me all three or do you want to go one by one? >> we will go one by one. i think that will be easier. liz: the pro act is a top agenda item. the challenges workers face in trying to form a union, they are harassed and intimidated and if you can get more workers to come together and raise their standard on-the-job, we are never going to get a place in this economy where we are having a rising tide of higher wages and better benefits for all working people. so, the pro act has faced some challenges in terms of the senate rules. they are arcane rules and need to be changed because they are preventing progress. they are preventing an agenda from passing. the pro act, voting rights, infrastructure, those are the big ones i keep thinking about because i think they will make the most difference for working people. but we are not just fighting this battle in washington dc and it's not just about senate rules. we are going to keep pushing and holding those senators feet to the fire, but we are also going to fight this battle in the field and mobilize folks on the ground. workers are not waiting for a bill to pass. they are continuing to work -- to push forward. they are examples of worker organization and strikes happening all over the country because workers have had enough. they are fed up with this system that is broken and elected officials, if they are not listening, that's when elections end up having consequences. >> going off of that, would you support efforts to defund campaigns for those moderate democrats who do not support jettisoning the filibuster? would you support local affiliates running a primary challenge if they are not with you on the big issues? is that something the afl-cio would be comfortable with? liz: that is why i keep going back to issue-driven politics. those are decisions made at the local level based on how elected officials perform in the way they vote. those discussions will be happening in states like arizona and i was just on the ground and there's a lot of live conversation happening. they are in senator cinemas office weekly pushing. we will keep mobilizing on the ground and at the same time we are walking the halls of congress and putting pressure on them here. >> obviously, the 2020 election, 40% of union households backed president trump and 57% act president biden. at the same time, you seem to be very much engaged in pushing union recruitment efforts in terms of bringing younger voters in. younger voters seem to favor issues older voters who may not have voted for president trump would not favor. so how do you bring those people together because it seems like back in the 80's, you may have had republicans getting 20% of the union vote and now they are getting 40. how you build something eager while staying true to the core base of older blue-collar workers in the midwest to no longer feel like they identify with democrats who they majority of afl-cio candidates tend to endorse. liz: our job as a labor movement is to educate our members and bring people together. it can be challenging when you have multiple generations in workforce. that is what is unique to the labor movement. we can be a place where workers have those conversations and debates and they can be fierce at times. when i'm out in the field talking to workers, rarely are they focused on the elected official as much as they are worried about their health care, worried about what kind of wages they are making on a job or whether that employer is going to be profitable and they will have a job tomorrow. i think again, back to the issues, that's what brings people together. we stay laser focused on issues of the economy, the workplace, and what is increasingly clear is young people are out on the front lines of a lot of social justice fights we are seeing in the streets. as far as racial and gender equality. that's up to us in the labor movement to reflect and it is part of our baseline values that we think everybody should have a good and decent job, be treated with respect and be free from harassment and discrimination on the job. i think that's part of what we do as a labor movement. we are in the community, fighting for social justice and the two go hand-in-hand. reaching millennials, getting more young people involved will definitely be about showing that active advocacy, grassroots, movement building in the streets. but for those who are the more seasoned workers, being issue-focused and getting results and making progress on the policy work we are doing every day on the hill. >> you just said younger workers tend to be on social justice causes like racial justice. your union has come out with a report saying while you support broad police reform, you support efforts to increase funding for police. many police belong to unions and many of them belong to the afl-cio. how do you bridge that divide when you have younger workers think defund the police and defend afl-cio members, and on the others you have afl-cio members saying this is a multi-stand. you've got republicans just waiting to jump in and pick off a lot of those voters because that is what their next coalition is going to be in 2024. liz: welcome to my world. they are a big tent and we have workers from so many different industries and workplaces and backgrounds and different perspectives that it is a challenge. i won't lie about that. in terms of the issues around policing, it's a great example of how the labor movement can be a center of gravity for having those difficult conversations. i think you are seeing young people in the streets because they are dissatisfied. we would argue policing in this country is broken. but who better to talk about how better reformat than the workers themselves who are seeing what is happening day today and know the ins and outs of the profession. what we did is pull together -- we have 13 unions who represent police and the federation. you have the teamsters as well, so 15 unions at this table with rank-and-file workers, leaders, delving into the issues of how to make this profession work for our communities. most of them would argue the lack of investment, the lack of protection, that we as workers, front-line workers no we have a duty to hold ourselves accountable. that wasn't the key findings in our blueprint, that unions, when we see an officer doing the wrong thing and not standing up for their values we hold dear, that is unless. we need to be the one to say you know what? that's not how we do business in the labor movement. that's not how this profession was intended to be. we as a union can be on the front end of that change and so we are developing as we speak a program called -- everybody loves an acronym -- union law enforcement accountability and duty standards. so the union itself is developing that accountability system to get around the so-called blue wall of silence, that we are going to be advocating to hold our own members accountable if and when there is someone out there not doing the right thing. linda: suddenly we are running out of time. i have a colleague from the buffalo news who was going to be here this morning but at the last minute couldn't be here. so i'm going to ask a question on his behalf. starbucks in buffalo are beginning a drive to unionize. how important is this to the labor movement and could this be the start of a national effort to organize food service workers? liz: yes, absolutely and i would applaud the starbucks workers for the courage they have shown to stand up and make their voices heard as we have talked about already this morning. it's definitely challenging if you want to form a union in the work place with the state of the lot today. absolutely, yes. the notion of solidarity when workers are standing up, they are not standing up. -- they are not standing up alone. we will do everything we can to support them and it's difficult in retail, as we know. we have seen what has happened in the pandemic and the precarious work in retail. certainly the issues they have around scheduling and the lack of having a real voice on the job in an industry that tends to end up lowering wages and standards that week -- standards as we go. there have been a lot of complaints about not being able to find workers and it has been fascinating to see the same employers who oppose raising the minimum wage all of a sudden find money to raise wages because they see a talent shortage. we can unpack that later but i think retail is ripe for union organizing. starbucks has always fancied itself as a highroad employer and they do a lot in terms of charity and providing educational benefits. but i think sometimes it's really about fundamental respect and biggie, being able to have -- respect and dignity, being able to come to the table with your employer and not be afraid. that's what we're hearing from workers in buffalo. >> you ted touched on this but has the pandemic created more of an opportunity for unions to win support and if so, why? liz: i think so, absolutely. the public is finally connecting the dots that unions are a pathway to making sure we have safe workplaces because at the beginning of the pandemic, there was so much uncertainly -- uncertainty, people were showing up to work without the proper protective equipment and have a lack of information, a lack of ability to speak out. so i think you saw hospitals were nurses had the protection of the union and could walk out and say we are not going back on the job until we get what we need. the public started to see front-line essential workers as critical to our ability to push through this pandemic and they were able to have the protection of the union to get the safety protection they needed. that's an opening along with the fact that people are starting to get it written large that with the economy being broken and the lack of a middle-class -- people don't even use the term middle-class anymore because it seems so out of reach and the american dream has all but disappeared because we have a lack of good, sustainable jobs. i think now we are starting to see a modern labor movement is what it is going to take to get everyone access to those good jobs and have a voice at work and be able to build power. the way you do that is coming together collectively. >> you mentioned public approval numbers. why do you think there is a national movement in favor of worker power? why is it happening now? liz: the more people are fed up, i think they are looking for answers. it's interesting -- in silicon valley, you saw a walkout at google. people were fed up with the sexual harassment that was going on. so, they walk and felt really empowered. then they went back to work and things have gone back to the status quo because they didn't have an organized way with the enforcement of the law behind them to sustain it. you need that institution to sustain that activism. people were starting to wake up and we ended up talking with some of those workers and saying -- there's a thing called a union that you can come together and have the full force and effect of the law behind you. have the expertise of union lawyers who can help you navigate, who can help you interpret the laws around sexual harassment. folks are starting to connect the dots, especially in industries that have not traditionally had unions. a lot of people have perceptions that unions are only in heavy industry or jobs of the past. look at agile journalists organizing with these platform companies because they want to use their union as a way to leverage corporate social behavior. who would've thought you can use your union and bargain at the table things beyond wages and benefits. >> i would like you to address how you are navigating covid and mask mandates and vaccine mandates. what kind of advice are you giving to your locals -- it's a diverse membership so it is hard to generalize, but what's the sense you are hearing in the guidance you are giving as workers are returning, in many cases, with new mandates? liz: we are all navigating this together. this is a whole new frontier and we think everybody should be vaccinated. i will say that off the top. that's the only way we are going to bring back the economy. i will be honest with you -- our unions are in different places. but if you look at workplaces, there is no cookie-cutter, one-size-fits-all policy. it's a different situation if you are a nurse in a hospital than if you are a bus driver or someone working in starbucks. what has happened is unions have pushed forward -- our baseline is we want a worker voice and perspective when we are creating these back to work policies. that's the central thing we can bring to the table as the labor movement, that we can be the source for reliable, good information, even though there's a lot on social media, a lot of misinformation. the labor movement can be the place where union members and workers can get trusted information. we've noticed we have an education process in the afc is going through education process and they have found initially workers are hesitant. the union can play a role in educating them in turn that around in a staggering way. for african-american workers and their union, it was 58% who wanted the vaccine and then once they were talking to folks, it went up to 96%. so the union can play a very central role in that process and work with employers as we are navigating this whole new frontier of what workplaces are going to look like in the future because this is going to be a longer-term thing than what we saw initially. >> i know you are probably aware of the numbers, but white collar profession has shown an uptick while blue-collar professions have not done as well. to what degree are white collar industries and professions the future of labor organizing and to what degree could that create a class divide in the sense that we described the labor movement? liz: i'm glad you asked that question because i believe we have a huge opportunity in front of us. we said before with the broken economic system, workers in every sector are experiencing this. it's not just "lou collar workers." that's why i -- "blue-collar workers." we have everything lined up, we have a pro-worker administration, we have the congress, it's a big opportunity for policy gains. workers are standing up and demanding change and the labor movement is right at the center of this. a modern, dynamic, bold labor movement so we can be the pathway for workers in every sector of the economy to do better. this is especially true for white-collar workers. in these emerging sectors, technology -- i spoke of earlier how it is impacting workplace and how we as workers don't really have a voice. we are often just accepting it and employers are introducing and through the pandemic have hastened the introduction of technology in the workplace. will we stand by passively and accepted and grumble beneath the surface and often watch it fail or are we going to co-create that future and have workers at the table, at the center of that future of what work is going to look like? we think the labor movement will be an engine for what that workplaces going to look like in the future. we will have the ability -- what that workplace is going to look like in the future. and we will shape it hopefully with corporations that can see the handwriting on the wall. if we are not taking care of workers and displacing them in massive numbers like we saw with the deindustrialization of the past, we did not take care of people or find new pathways to better jobs for people. then it's not going to be a very good society to live in. that's a central role of the labor movement, to co-create that future. >> do you see your priorities of the white-collar and blue-collar members different from each other? liz: i think the fundamental fairness of what people expect in the workplace, the issues of respect, no matter where you work, we are seeing that more and more because workers are getting such a raw deal. they are being ignored, they are not being listened to, and there is the economic bread-and-butter of better wages, benefits, health care. those are central. but the issues around fairness, respect, dignity, that holds true whether you are working in silicon valley or whether you are driving a truck. linda: we have reached the end of the hour. liz: that went faster than i thought. linda: i hope we can continue the tradition of having the afl-cio come every year before labor day. again, congratulations on your election and i hope to see you soon. liz: i appreciate all of you and the work you do as well because your work is absolutely central to our democracy. i want to say thank you for the work you do. [applause] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] the hearing is about two hours.

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