A military target. It was the site of a military defeat that had to be redeemed in february 1945 a Daring Mission was launched to recapture this island. Author Kevin Maurer joins us tonight to discuss this mission. He is the author of several books including no easy day the firsthand account of the mission that killed Osama Bin Laden and hes covered the military for more than 10 years traveling to iraq afghanistan East Africa and haiti to tell the stories of american soldiers. His latest Work Rock Force tells the story of the 1945 retaking of corregidor. Please join me in welcoming Kevin Maurer. Hello. Welcome. Thank you very much to the Macarthur Center for having me to talk about Rock Force sort of a virtual homecoming for me as i went to high school in Virginia Beach and my my family still lives there and my brother lives in norfolk. So im im pretty familiar with with what you guys do over there. And i really appreciate you guys taking the time to talk to me. So the Rock Force is an interesting book only in that i really had no idea of anything about anything about the 503. And i was in my Editors Office in new york. Brent howard and his grandfather jumped on corregidor and he was you know, were talking about doing a book together and trying to find a topic and and hes the one that mentioned corregidor and the five or third and thought it would make for a great book. But at this point at that point, i really had no idea the only only really familiarity i had with Rock Force was that i saw theyve got a mannequin in the special Operations Museum and fayetteville, North Carolina of one of the paratroopers and i just knew that they had jumped in the pacific. So for me this book was as much of a journey of discovery as anything and and what i found i think was is really an overlooked operation and in the pacific that doesnt get the same sort of fanfare that the operations do particularly the airborne operations do in europe. But at the end of the day, i think this is an amazing story and im just gonna walk you through a little bit of what i found and some of the characters and folks that youll meet as you read Rock Force. So that when you do read it, youre youre actually better and more wellversed in the battle that i was when i first started. So first off lets talk about corregidor the island. Its a little more than four miles in length. Its shaped like a rocky tadpole and it sits in the mouth of the manila bay. The Islands Name comes from the Spanish Word for magistrator corrector. And thats because when the spanish took over the philippines the island was converted into sort of the first stop for ships entering manila bay, and thats where you would go and get your manifest checked. And everything in the name stuck once a volcano the island slowly became a fortress first when the spanish were there obviously as they put cannons on it to defend the mouth of the bay and then after the spanishamerican war in 1898, the americans turned it into the gibraltar of the pacific and thats where it really became a fortress they dug in these massive tunnels. They build massive bunkers for these these giant coastal guns. That were built to protect the bay. The head of the tadpole as you can see in the left side of the map is its called topside and this is really a built up mountain. That really looks like a head. It looks like its sticking its head like a tadpole sticking its head out of the water. And thats one of the parachute. He drops were made and theyre the base of the Hotel Sort of where the tail is around the middle of that. Theres a place called Melinda Hill and thats like a little hump and thats actually the main tunnel was built there as a storage tunnel, but it later as youll find as the japanese laced the island that becomes a headquarters for general macarthur and then later it becomes a refuge for the last american survivors and then three years later it becomes the last refuge for the japanese defenders. So why is corregidor important . You know, what why . Know why does it hold this mythology, i think in american military history well. In late 1941 in a general macarthur was kind of caught off guard by the japanese invasion of the philippines and he was forced to retreat to corregidor. Months later under orders from president roosevelt. He the general was whisked away from corregidor by pt boats in the dark of the night leaving the defenders there. It was a bitter pill for him. It was a huge humiliation for the american military. And you know, its sort of haunted american forces until the winner of 1945. You know, its funny as you read the book. Youll see the paratroopers knew what happened at corregidor. They knew what happened at baton and they they were they understood this mission to be somewhat of a bit of revenge some would have getting back at the japanese because when the jet you know, when the japanese took corregidor, it was a tremendous blow. Um, general macarthur was was convinced and was ready to surrender with his forces there, but he was only taken out of there by under order from the president roosevelt. For the express reason that that he was viewed as the general to lead american and allied forces against the japanese. So take back the Island Macarthur calls on the 503rd parachute imagery regiment and at that time it was commanded by a highly trained veteran airborne. Commander by the name of Colonel George jones the mission is to jump onto the island which is you know hemmed in by sheer cliffs and its good pogmarked by bomb craters bristling with deadly spiky broken tree trunks and rest it from the japanese defenders who await fully armed and ready to fight to the death. Jones is a West Pointer and an early graduate at parachute school at fort benning. He was stationed in the Panama Canal Zone first as a Company Commander before taking full command of the 501st Parachute Battalion one of the armys first airborne units. That assignment earned him the Nickname Panama jones which sort of sticks with them for the rest of his career. You know while the 82nd airborne division and later the hundred and first airborne division stood out and their fight in europe. It was the 503rd parachute infantry regiment that was sent to australia in 1942. And it was it was general macarthur strategic reserve. It was the only independent airborne regiment in the pacific theater. So as you go through the book one of the first guys youll meet is the guy named Bill Calhoun and at the age of only 21. Im sorry 22 first lieutenant Bill Calhoun was already a veteran paratrooper. He earned a purple heart but the time he gets ordered to take corregidor and he was the leader of the first platoon for F Company and in this picture here, hes holding a thompson submachine gun. Honestly, calhoun is my winters if anyone whos read band of brothers. You know calhoun really represents the character. The Books Narrative is really built on his unpublished memoir, you know, i got two copies of this noir one from a historian named Paul Whitman who had edited it and added some context to it. The second copy i got was a printed on Dot Matrix Paper with his handwritten notes on it and and that came from his family and his memoir really . Is the backbone of the narrative of Rock Force it gives you the character to follow as well as his he gives him his inner monologue and i think what stood out to me when i read his memoir was how much of a toll being a Combat Commander took upon him how much he loved his men but also how much he struggled with what the mission struggled with its importance and i thought it was it was really telling because a lot of times, you know World War two books in particular. Are written with such a historic right and wrong good versus evil and i like the idea of following calhoun to this battle and really seeing how he he deals with combat and deals with being a combat leader. The second important character youre going to meet is a guy named. Charlie Bradford Doc bradford is what they call them because he was the second italian surgeon. Um and in 1926 graduate of harvard, he was part of a team of Boston Area surgeons who traveled with the american Hospital Expedition to london during the blitz to provide medical care in 1940 and the two years later. He joined the army as a captain. Its an orthopedic surgeon and he started his career as a hospital. In australia, but what was funny is after several broken bones from the 503 Parachute Jump came in. He thought it might be useful for the regiment to have an orthopedic surgeon on staff. So he he finagled some Junk Training and in australia got and enjoying the 503. He also wrote a memoir and this is a memoir that was passed around by other historians quite a bit that were writing about corregidor and had its been used before as a real Soldiers Basis because couple Reasons Bradford writes beautifully. Hes got a great insight for story and because he was the surgeon there was a lot of guys passing in and out of the Aid Station so he picked up a lot of stories as the wounded guys came in. And hes able to paint sort of the a broader picture of what happened on corregidor and he also but hes got such hes such a good rider. He brings such humanity that you actually you get to understand the war a little bit, but he also brings a great admiration for the men around them. He really is a guy who who saw the big picture saw the valor that he was seeing and was able to capture really eloquently on the page the last kind of point of View Character that i really focused on was a guy named private first Class Anthony Lopez and lopezs colorado. Hes the youngest of five brothers. He grown up without a father, but the army really became his new family once he enlisted in 1943. Lopez is the only only man that i interviewed that i wrote deeply about that was alive when hes passed away since but i was able to get one of his final interviews at his home in, colorado. A really interesting guy. As a good storyteller, he tells a couple great stories in the book. Want about how he and some of his friends stole a Supply Truck and was able to find apples and they found lard and they were able to use what they stole in the big fresh apple pies around the holidays, which was quite a hit with his with his units. Whats interesting about Tony Lopez is his story is important because theres theres a part in the book because of the sheer cliffs around corregidor some some of the guys missed the straps on at the top and they were in these ravines. That were cut was which is where the japanese defenders were and at one point the Book Tacony goes down into one of those those ravines to save a wounded paratrooper in and its a really movie story. Its really heroic story. But what stuck with me most from my tom spent with with Tony Lopez was he didnt really want to talk that much about it. He really wanted to talk about the apple pies and some of the funny pranks that he and his. His unit mates were doing so. But he really isnt as a heart of so hard and soul of this book and it really was a privilege to get a chance to spend some time with him. Lastly and i think the guy that most people will have some familiarity with is Lloyd Mccarter. And whats interesting about Louis Macarthur is hes a hes a former Squad Leader and he was a scout in the first platoon, but but he and calhoun have this great relationship because calhoun handpicks him to be the Platoon Scout and that calhoun says pretty much blatantly. Hes not going into combat without Lloyd Macarthur so before the mission before they actually get on the plans to jump on a Creditor Calhoun goes down to the stockade and gets gets mccarter out because mccarter had a habit of leaving the unit when they were in garrison, so when they werent in combat, and they were waiting for their next Mission Lloyd Lloyd mccarter would disappear and there was always rumors that you know, where he where was he and the rumor was before corregidor. He was in new guinea fighting alongside some australian units, you know, he had this fearsome reputation of being this really reckless and he would draw anyone who challenged them. But what makes it macarthur interesting is Hes Sort of that that classic character you see in fiction that you know cant be in peace that he hes always out in combat. Hes always has this reckless mentality, but but with such an essential part of the unit, he was their eyes and ears that the guy strusted him and and when you when you read the book, youll find that you know. When they needed help the most, you know, one point in the book. Theres a Bonsai Charge and mccarter is the one that actually goes down puts himself in Harms Way and actually blunts this this Bonsai Charge. So macarthur is that that really interesting character. Thats kind of a classic guy. He was a lumberjack in Idaho And Washington before join the military. I mean, hes got this really colorful past and yet if i invented him and said, im right about this guy Lloyd Mccarter and hes a former longer for the congressional honor you to you laugh and say it was going over the top but it really is why nonfiction so great and this guy really existed the only regret i have really about the parts about Lloyd Mccarters. I just never got as much about him as i would have liked. He is such a great colorful guy and such an interesting part of the story, but i just i never got to the depth of what i wanted. To to really flush him out more than i did so so that well back to the back to the map now and as you can see, you know, if youre looking at if youre this is more the tactical map. This is the plan so so when jones gets the mission to take corregidor here ranges a ride with a Bomb Recruit so he could do a Reconnaissance Flight over the island and select landing fields. One of the passes he split he spots to clearings on top side and that top side is the kind of the bulbous head at the at the front of the island right one was an old Ninehole Golf Course and the other was the Parade Field, right . But then on another pass he sees that theres a theres an airfield on the Tail Section towards towards the the right of the map on the tail. Thats where he decides. Hes going to jump. Hes gonna jump on the airfield its flat. Its its wide its easy to jump on but hes overruled they order him to land on top side and fight downhill because the japanese had set up their defenses to repel and amphibious invasion because thats how the japanese took the island the prevailing idea was if you just jumping the paratroopers to the top of the island in the middle, they would have the high ground and they would be able to fight down. So theyre going to use two columns of C47 Cargo planes and the paratroopers would approach the island from the southwest. At about 400 feet planes would be over the landing fields for six seconds per Pass Meaning Theyd have to jump and sticks sticks being groups a paratroopers of six to eight. And so two two aircraft at a time would go over the landing fields 68 got six to eight guys which jump out and they would make three passes and when they when they go to jump on the island the prevailing intelligence tells them that theres about 800 japanese defenders. There. They make a Couple Recon flights before the the actual mission and what they they still think its only 800 japanese but when they get on the ground, they realize its over 6000. So youre talking about 3,000 paratroopers jumping into the middle of 6,000 japanese. So heres the view of corregidor from topside as youre as youre coming into during the mission. Pull the Light Speculation on the ground there are discarded parishes and then a long building you see there is a as mile long barracks. Which is it becomes kind of a landmark. On top side, but it becomes sort of the Center Hub where the headquarters is in the Aid Stations, but the first look you see is is this is what it looks like if youre a paratrooper getting ready to jump out of a c47 you can see they discarded parachutes. You can see sort of the ravines here with the jungle. And whats interesting Theres Something special about a Paratrooper Right if you think about it because you see the bit you see the trooper there in the in the picture. Hes jumping out with all his gear. Hes jumping out with about two days worth of food all the ammunition. Hes gonna need weapons. And theres sort of a something special about paratroopers paratroopers in that, you know. They have this idea that they can jump out of an airplane into the middle of a Combat Zone and survive for two or three days before they need to be resupplied and that that mentality is sort of special and unique. You know, i had that i had the pleasure of going overseas with the 82nd airborne modern paratroopers now. And its the same mentality. Its the same idea there. Is this like theres a ruggedness to the way the way paratroopers see the world the way they fight and and i think it starts with the fact that you know, theyre trained and convinced that if you give them, you know, two days of food and and and a healthy Parachute Drop where theyre not injured. Theyre going to be just fine in in fighting the enemy. This is how you land if you guys notice this is a how rugged the material is. How rug of the ground is this is the crater here and this is chetnaikum and chet. I got a great all history. Of chat talking about his time on corregidor and he describes his landing a pretty pretty vividly. He says after the jolt of the Parachute Opening and i can looked up into a full canopy. He footed for a few seconds. Just enough time to get his bearings. Then the wind pushed him backwards as the ground raced up to meet him. Theres no time to adjust i could land it hard on his back in a cloud of dust. And then he was in this crater here before he could move paratroopers from the italian headquarters jumped next to him and helped him out of his Parachute Harness snatching his Thompsons Sub Machine gun from his case. He split a magazine into the receiver and chambered around. When he got to the lip of the crater, he spotted an american correspondent holding a camera. The man had filled Nikons Landing and hed learn later the footage of him with his World War ii leggings made it into the newsrooms. About the Parachute Assault on corregidor shown in the United States. So im sort of funny that i was when i was reading his oral history and i was writing thats thats that section of the book. I reached out to Paul Whitman a historian. And one of the experts on corregidor and he had the picture that the correspondent had shot and part of that newsreel of nikem here landing in the crater just like he described okay, so this is what i mentioned earlier mile long barracks. This is mile long barracks here. Its so it was the worlds largest military barracks and had prior to the war been used for the building of american officers and personnel assigned a corregidor. During the american invasion to retake the island the paratroopers sees the barracks from the japanese who you and then use it as a Command Post and Aid Station captain bradford, dr. Bradford. We talked about earlier. He set up his Aid Station mile long barracks and you if you go to Visit Corregidor now, it looks similar to what you see in the picture here. Its got this, you know Damage Skeleton Look and when i went to visit i was there with Paul Whitman and he started digging in some of the debris in front of mile long barracks, and he actually pulled out parts of a parachute so i was able to get parts of a parachute there right in front of this this barracks that its still there today and if you go and visit you can still you can still walk around and walk in a little bit. So this once they get to corregidor you can see how rugged the landscape is corregidor been bombed. For i think weeks before the paratroopers actually landed so the ground was chewed up. They were broken trees everywhere. It wasnt like what you expect to see when you think about the war in the pacific it wasnt thick jungle. Um, it really was kind of a barren wasteland that was you know, the the trees were all shattered by bombs or massive craters, and then there were massive tunnels and caves throughout the the island. So the war in the pacific, you know was particularly nasty, you know, it was fought in these claustrophobic tunnels and and jungles and often at close quarters and creditor was no different. What was what was telling was interesting to me a little bit too is as our more. I read about this and having covered both the war in Iraq And Afghanistan. It was sort of shocking how little quarter was offered by either side of america soldiers in sailors and marines, you know hated the japanese and the japanese hated the americans and more so than i think can see over in europe. No. A paratroopers, you know approaching in groups would approach these these tunnels and these caves and and they would throw white phosphorus grenades or just shoot flamethrowers into them to get the japanese out. You know, they werent going to go in there and dig them out fight them if they didnt have to and much of the battles fault that way in close quarters, you know. Sometimes with trench knives and bayonets because some of the the structures are concrete so you couldnt shoot in there safely. Theres one scene in the book where they go into a Machine Shop and and the initial fight starts with with some of the paratroopers shooting and the ricochet is actually hit create friendly fire. So they end up having to fight trench knives and bayonets. So this becomes a very savage Savage Fight and it got so bad that the Battalion Head Coach at some point sends out a message to all the men and says look we need intelligence. So we need to capture some japanese defenders we can find out how many are left where theyre hiding. You know, whats going on and well offer three a Threeday Pass for every every prisoner we get and they still really couldnt get they couldnt get prisoners so, you know this as this battle, you know, this the jump is a success but as they try to break out of of from the top of the of topside and start to clear out these ravines it becomes this this daily slug through the ravines, you know in these tunnels and and often at close quarters finally though. After a couple weeks, you know the americans eventually prevail and general macarthur is able to come back to corregidor. After the after three years of after three years after being evacuated, you know, he finally comes back with members of entourage and when he stepped off the boat though, you know this they were still the stench of enemy corpses in the air the stench was so bad that sailors reported smelling it as they were they were patrolling the waters around the island when macarthur gets the corregidor before going up the top side for a ceremony. He sort of drives around the island. He goes to where he used to live and he goes to melania tunnel. Where he his Headquarters Wasnt where he lived right before he was evacuated but his family and then he goes up and looks at some of the batteries that you know, really were what corregidors claim to fame was whats interesting is is one of the things he says is hes standing in front of battery wheeler, which was one of the massive coastal guns and he says his Gentleman Corregidor is living proof that the day of the fixed fortress is over. And i sort of have that quote in there and that quote is sort of stuck with me because you know, i think what hes saying is when the japanese took it took corregidor, you know, they bombed it they didnt attack it with ships, you know regular was really built to fight a naval a naval attack and to shoot back at ships, but when the bombers get involved or when you drop paratroopers on top of it this idea of building a Fortress Island to protect the mouth in the middle. Manila bay is is far in the past by the time he gets there and and i think the fact that he recognized that i think is telling so when hes done with his tour he comes up to preside over sort of a a final ceremony at the parade ground. And you know this theres paratroopers there. There was theres infantry from the 34th infantry regiment and they were part of this amphibious part of the assault on corregidor and he says, general macarthur says the colonel jones. He says the capture of corregidor is one of the most brilliant operations in military history. That he looks he sees the flagpole and he says i see the flagpole still stands. Have your troopers hoist the colors to its beak and let no enemy ever haul them down . And so the of course they host the colors again and and and what i thought was interesting too was in bradfords memoir, right . All the officers are standing around mile high barracks and theyre watching this Ceremony And Everything and at the end of it one of bradfords friends turns them and he says well that ends the story of corregidor and the truth the true story. From now on its a legend and belongs to the scenario writers. Theyll make comic strip heroes out of the real men who fought here. Im glad we saw our part they can have theirs. Which i thought was very its interesting that even they were aware that that this battle would probably go down have its own mythology and and i think part of that is into the fact that it was such a such a symbolic, you know, such a such a bitter loss in 42 and that when they finally get back and take it back to sort of a swage that loss but so i think the soldiers were aware that it was going to be much bigger and and you know trumped up a little bit and and that the the that they saw. Was not going to be the one that was going to be portrayed in History Books and i think at the end of the day that Quote Sort of was my North Star as i tried to really dig into giving readers a Soda Straw View of this fight and really staying as close to the soldier and as close to what they were thinking and less about the big muscle movements of the battle. So i just that close. I dont know that that really was the emphasis in the and whats set up the battle as for the 503rd. The regular really becomes their defining one of their defining moments if you notice here, this is the modern patch for the 503rd now the units served in vietnam. Its certain afghanistan. Its served in iraq. Its part of the 173rd airborne brigade based out of italy for those of you that have seen restrepo the documentary made by sebastian younger. Those are those are paratroopers from the 503. But the unit is nicknamed the rock now. And they and if you notice that the patch of you if you look at the patch carefully, youll see the eagle, but you also see. What looks like a tadpole . Shaped island with the rock written in it and this patch right here that the one you see here was created by the the World War ii paratroopers that took corregidor. Specifically to honor what they did in that mission and its still being worn today. Finally, i just want to thank everybody for coming to this. I i put this last slide up because i had a chance to go Visit Corregidor in 2019. And i was i mentioned paul a couple times in this and i you know, he was really an Expert Guide and we walked as many of the locations as i could if you see if you read the Book Youll Notice that some of these locations in the picture are are in the book. The one on the left is Wheeler Battery is where im sitting in Wheeler Battery, you know looking at where calhoun and his platoon get into a fight on the first day and then this middle one is where in the Bonsai Attack that youll see in the book. Its where that that takes place here and then melinda tunnel, obviously is that tunnel that we talked about the middle of the island where macarthur was took refuge, but all these places are still there it is. Its an amazing battlefield to go and study. The tour is great. But more importantly i think you get a real sense of just how tough of a flight it was and and really what was accomplished by those paratroopers who did jump. Thank you very much for tuning in and i appreciate the time. Hey kevin, how are you jim . Very good. Thanks for the presentation. The book was great. Very glad that youre able to join us tonight, and we do have some questions that are coming in for tonight. The first one is the assault on corregidor was made by by the 503rd parachute infantry regiment. Ive been told that they use parachutes of the 511 parachute infantry regiment of the 11th airborne division at several of the parachutes didnt deploy properly resulting in deaths of the tropers. Is this true at the time the 511 was fighting in the battle of manila advancing from the south. Oh, thats a great question. You know, i dont i dont know. I dont think any im almost positive. I can double check with i dont think anybody died in the Parachute Jump, so no, i dont think anybody died there. They did have some injuries. They had far fewer injuries than they anticipated. I think they were counting on 50 Injury Rate and they just didnt get it. Im pretty sure they probably did jump with those parachutes. Im just guessing though because they they thought they were going to jump with in the Manila Right and then they didnt and they didnt know why they got left off and then it slowly came out that they were going to corregidor instead, right . Yeah, i had never heard that. I mean i knew that they were gonna that they were planning on jumping in at nickels, but you know, it never really came off at that point when this battle takes place. When is it in relation to the recapture of manila . Of the recap for middle is still ongoing, right . So the son of going in conjunction together. Kind of right in the middle of it right in the middle of about. Yeah about federal February 16th is drop date. So yeah, exactly. So its 10 days on corregidor. So yeah, but yeah about the middle. Yeah, and i think when macarthur comes the battle of manilas as pretty much ended like that day. Yeah. Is there anything in your book about the 503rd drop in new guinea at nadzab . I make a reference to it. It was a i make a conscious effort really to we try to write this book as close to just corregidor as i could. I honestly im not a historian. Im a reporter so i tried to write this as much like a reporter would if i was there with them versus trying to do like a real History Book . Very good, very good. Can you tell me who built the Melinta Tunnel . The americans built a little they dug it out after they took over corregidor after the spanishamerican war in 1898. Now a corregidor of veteran once took pains to explain to me that the large part of the 503rd were not professional soldiers civilians in uniform. How do you compare the World War ii men with those you got to know in Iraq And Afghanistan . Have you ever looked into the issue of Survivors Guilt . Okay, a Couple Couple parts. I see a lot of similarities between the soldiers particularly paratroopers now and paratroopers them. I think theres a kind of a mentality to a parachute where like i mentioned in the speech. Where you when you convince a soldier that youre gonna give him everything they need to survive 48 hours on a battlefield and push them out of a plane that theres a certain mentality to that and i think thats stays regardless either modern paratrooper or over two paratrooper. Its an interesting that you bring up that its a lot of citizen soldiers in the 50 third colonel jones has an issue with that if you if as you get through the book, youll realize that he he actually holds back some of the awards from guys not the real professional soldiers, but from the citizen soldiers thinking that it wasnt that important to them or they werent truly soldiers. They were just still citizen soldiers. So wow that divide was there and then survivors go i think is everybody i think anybody gets through something like this. I think you you have a little of that. I know Tony Lopez when i spoke to him before he way he had that he just didnt really want to talk about what he did during the battle. He wanted to talk about things before and after in the funny stories, and he wanted to remember the guys that didnt make it. So i think thats a thats a lasting impact right remembering the good things and then the people that are gone. Yeah. I know we see that quite a bit. Can you comment on the condition of the Battle Site Today . Is it readily accessible to tourists . I cant say more and jamie youve been there. I mean its an amazing place to go and and i think if you if you could just spare a day and take the tour. Youre not going to be disappointed. But if you can spare a couple days, whats the the great part about that battlefield is that you know, theyll let you walk around i climbed all through Wheeler Battery, which is this massive battery where a good chunk of the beginning of the book takes place. I crawled into these ravines. I mean, its really cool. Its a little more overgrown than when they fought there obviously, but its all there and theres no real not like an america about to feel where they call, you know, they coordinate it off and you Cant Touch Anything and you can really get in as deep as you want to get in. So its its really cool. Yes. I i agree. I i if i go to the philippines, thats the only place i really want to stay the whole time thing. They replace on earth. How hard is it to clean out the militia tunnels with all of the arms and the tunnels. It must have been tough. That was towards the end of the battle and and i actually we break the narrative a little bit in the book and i i was able a good researcher that does a lot with the imperial army. He found a a first Person Account from a japanese defender and thats where you really get into that tunnel and you start to see it was impossible. They were pouring fuel into the end of the the air shafts and they were burning them out. They were going in there to clear. It just its impossible to clear and if you go on the tour you can you get into that tunnel and its i wouldnt want to do it. I didnt like being in that tunnel and there was nobody trying to kill me. So right exactly. Now, why was an airborne assault preferred rather than an amphibious landing after sustained naval bombardment . Couple reasons one was the americans had learned a lot from the island hopping and they the japanese attacked corregidor on barges and the americans were able to hold them off for a while because of it and the japanese defense was arrayed to repel an amphibious assault. So it was actually really what what made corregidor work and what makes the Battle Plan Work is the fact that they did jump on top and into the middle of their defenses and were able to have the high ground because if when you see it really does look like a tadpole thats kind of cresting a little bit with its head. And so those two hills are really difficult to fight over it and so the easiest way to really take regular was to take it from the top and they had the perfect unit to do it. Hmm. Now how hard a fight did the japanese give during the recapture of corregidor . Did they fight to the death . Like they did during the battle of manila . Yes, absolutely. I mean lieutenant endo about the middle of the Book Lieutenant endo organizes moses defenders into a Bonsai Charge. And it really is was the Turning Point of the battle. It actually forces colonel jones at that point of compress his lines because they realized his guys were too spread out but that you know, that battle was hinging a little bit in the beginning and had that bonds are charge worked. It might be a much different book. But yeah, they fought hard they fought to the end and it was it and it was a nastier fight because of the fact that you had these deep tunnels that were some of them were concrete and a lot of it was, you know, flamethrowers and white phosphorus grenades and theres a couple really really kind of, you know, nasty battles that teeter right there on the edge. So yeah, they werent quitting and they fought hard. Now i your book just came out today. So i think a lot of people are asking questions just because they havent gotten a chance to see it yet. And this one was the 503rd provided air and naval gunfire support. Yes, they were and the and the battle was so there were so many dead bodies on the island that the naval support that sailors on the on the destroyers that were certainly on they could smell the stench. From the island so they had a constant ring around them. They had a constant Air Attack and theres a theres a scene in the book where Colonel Or Bradford the Surgeon State is on top of the mile high barracks and he watches these planes attack. He watches the remarks and so yeah, it was it was a constant, you know, they had constant support on it and that and i think you you pointed out in your book. Definitely that the almost 15 20 days prior to the the landing. Theyre just bombing every square inch of the island as there as theyre getting ready for this. Now troopers would fly over with them so that these bombing runs would go and and so, you know colonel jones went and right island they would send other officers to go and scout this this island to the point where they didnt think the japanese were there was only like 800 there and there ended up being over 6,000. But you know, they believed because they just didnt see any any life on the island. They were bombing it so heavily. Now were there any japanese prisons of war as a result of the recapture of corregidor just started your book and love it. Well done. Oh, well, thanks for that. Yeah, there were there were a few it got to the point where they had no idea how many defenders were there . And so colonel jones sends out an order that says basically hell give it people extra three days leave if they can get a prisoner and an even then they just they just couldnt find them. Theres a good scene in the book too where youll see where some of calhouns men try to get on and get a prisoner and it it almost costs them. So yeah. Actually that jim real quick that goes back to what we were talking about before which is that you know, the japanese were fighting and they werent quitting they werent surrendering and i think the fact they couldnt get a prisoner you run into that a couple times in the book speaks to that idea that theyre just they were going to fight to the end this way the whole war was really, do you know the height of the c47s when the men jumped ive heard that it was very low was that done . Because they had jumped at a higher altitude. They felt the men would be shot out of the sky by the japanese. It was they about 300 or 400 feet and they jumped because of the crosswind and they did they had such a small Landing Zone that they didnt want to miss it. You miss it you either going into the water or youre going into some of the ravines and then they at that point the ravines were were controlled by the japanese. And i think it speaks to their training and their discipline to jump with those kind of parachutes that arent easily, you know, driven and and flown to hit these drop zones a par 3 Golf Course and a Parade Field and if you go and Visit Corregidor that brainfield looks big but if youre gonna jump out of a plane and hit its not that big and i think you pointed out in your book as well that like after the first jump they saw him kind of moving a little too far and then they even decrease the the height even more was that okay . Yahoo make some go much lower much lower choice, though he take he talks to the pilot and his guys jump i think at 300 feet, which i was talking to a buddy of my news and i was an Army Ranger and he he just marvels at that even with their he wouldnt want to do that with his modern parachute, but hes thats like one two, and then youre down. Yeah. Yeah. Now, how did the 503rd coordinate with the amphibious forces including the 34th infantry . How did the paratroopers coordinate with the tanks that landed . But there are a few tanks they had and but they had radios and they had the wireless that they put in as soon as they got on there. Whats interesting about the radio though is youll find as you get to the middle of the book and and end of the japanese creator starting to get this this Bonsai Charge together. Theyd shut the radios off at night. And so it ends up hurting them that night when they get a tax. They Cant Coordinate because the radios are shut off. Thats part of their sop so but they did have radios around and they were keeping track of everything. Um any idea why the japanese had over 6,000 on corregidor with the ongoing battle of manila, it seems like they would have been needed in manila. I mean, i think they understood the significance of it. But again there wasnt these werent total combat troops. So let these are a lot of guys the japanese defenders were crew from some of the ships that were sunk by american forces. So youll find that some of the defenders didnt have rifles or if they did they were sharing one with another guy a couple of them get it get into fight with the rebar with the bayonet attached to the front of it. I mean, its really was a kind of a savage Savage Fight and then these defenders were really just i dont want to say they were cannot fighter, but they werent cracked defensive troops. They were they were just guys they had mmm heres a comment from paul who you went around corregidor with he said 20 japanese pow surrendered on January 1st 1946, and they had been concentrated at battery monjo, which had never been retaken. Heres another thank you paul. Yeah, hes the man hes gone. I visit this from another person. Ive visited corregidor myself back in 2015 great trip, but i dont remember any flat ground on top side. Please describe the Landing Zone. Okay, so its two of them. You have the you have the top in front of the mile high or mile long barracks. You have that open field where the flag is now, right and thats thats the Parade Field. Thats one will end exams and then the other one was on the other side of that memorial area where you have where if thats the Golf Course there. Yeah all over the ground. Yeah. Oh, its all over grown and its its also very small. Its its easy without paul actually another throwback to paul. Paul has took me around corrector. I would have missed it. He actually was the one that pointed out because i couldnt see the Golf Course until he showed it to me. We have a couple comments from steve he used to live on corregidor and he said about 20 died on the jump if you got stuck in trees, most of the were defending the beaches. And then he also says theres no tour right now due to covid and he really worries about the condition of the island at this point. Um know i think you talked about some of this in your talk. But what was your primary source of information for research on the book . Well, it was two things. Well a couple things one. I used i used calhouns memoir, which i had two versions of i had one that he had printed out and he i got it from his his daughter from his home in texas that had some of his Hand Written Notes in it and then paul. Paul whitman who runs the basically the Corregidor Site and is probably the the greatest Information Source Information on corregidor. He had a edited version that he had edited and added context so i had that as well and i was able to merge those two with Colonel Or Captain bradfords book the surgeon and and then i come had a an oral history and then i did an interview with Tony Lopez, so i was able to weave all of those together with some of the archival documents from Pauls Site because he has all of it. Hes got the orders. Hes got all of it. And then and that that was it and then theres a couple the couple books have been written previously this that were a little bit bigger wider scope but you know this book i really tried to focus in on only of those couple guys in order to give you sort of an intimate walk through the battle. Well, it is a great day by Day Account and probably one of the few ive ever seen. What was the Press Reaction to the retaking of corregidor. The fall was a major News Story was the retaking of corregidor the same. Sure. I mean this was looked at as you know redemption. I mean, its i think its important. It was an important. I think it restored. Some of that what was lost in 42 so it was you know, that was the reason why there was correspondence. Thats the reason why you know, Nikon Landing is part of the newsreels. I think i think it was well very well covered and and it was it was a big deal taking it back. Do you know how many press guys were put in with the 503rd . I mean there was a couple that made the jump with them wasnt there. Yeah, one of them is with lopez. Well, if you recall he shoves about the door and and then ill let you read it in the book, but thats an interesting story in its own. Paul might know the exact number to be honest. I dont i dont have it in my notes right in front of me. Id have to look it up. Right well, we had one more comment saying its the best preserved battlefield in the pacific and i probably have to agree with that. You know, its doesnt look like it did but definitely the structures all still there everything still there. Yeah, most definitely. And i think that now. Theres another question is coming. What role if any did Fort Drum the concrete Battleship Play in the battle. Not paul if youre here connect, correct, weve been wrong but not none that im aware of. Youre not a major one that im aware of and 42 it had a major role. But yeah, not not not during that during that point. Um, theres another one. Do you know the date that macarthur raise the flag on corregidor . I think that you answered that thats march 2nd the day that he comes out there. Yeah. Yeah. Um and then well, theres a couple of questions that theyve asked for me about a research. And it says yes you are. Correct. No, no role in the retaking of corregidor. Paul is right on top of everything but very good Paul Whitman and then we have people i Cant Stress enough though. If youre if this is something youre interested in or you read the book and youre interested paul has got not only does Pauls Site corregidor. Org have a bunch of really cool stuff. Not only about the battle. In 45, but the battle in 42 about the coastal guns. I mean that site is a treasure trove. Youll get lost in it trust me, but he also has done a lot of cool books a lot of cool picture books. That will only supplement what what im able to do in this i mean paul i mean paul flew from australia. I met him from here from the United States and we spent about a week out there. That was it was great and its like walking around with wikipedia. Its corrected. Hes got all of it and so for all of you who are interested in this beyond the book, i just urge you to go to that site and look around. Its really fantastic stuff. Can you speak more about the role of the 34th . Infantry, you know in their landing. I mean they they were important in that. You know, you got that Twoprong Attack the with the with the Paratroopers Land on top they take some of the pressure off change the defense it allows you to land some of the more the heavy equipment that you cant get in there by plane. They become really important too because theyre able to come up to topside and get some of the wounded and get them back out to the beach and evacuate it off the island. So its its that great combined arms that they bring a lot of the more heavier equipment that the paratroopers just didnt have the ability to bring with them and they alleviate some of the pressure. Theyre all so Melissa Hill is there their main they make a big push on that as well. Heres another ive been there four or five times. The last time was really this year. Theyve had to brace up the walls of mile long barracks and the cinema there. Even though its very well preserved. Its still detering i would recommend one of the overnight tours. And staying there. Yeah. He was just having some comment i get comment about the place there where it is now. And steve again fighting was brutal on Fort Drum, but separate you know, so it was a separate a salt that they made there and the japanese were still resisting when macarthur returned. But that seems to be about all the questions for tonight, but we really do appreciate your time and thanks a lot and let us know if you if you ever working on something else. I will thank you so m