In havana, acting foreign minister shows diplomats rockets fired from the cuban raiders that he claims have u. S. Markings. Meanwhile at the united nations, cuban foreign minister accused United States of unleashing a war of invasion, saying the soldiers tained in florida but they make a quick denial. These charges are totally false and i deny them categorically. The United States has committed no aggression against cuba and no offensive has been launched from florida or any other part of the United States. And the Gaut Malab foothills there is a training depot. The government there denied that cubans are among the soldiers. Professional soldierers are among the teachers and once trained the men mysteriously disappeared. Guatemala has held no grief for the castro regime and has aided the rebels. In cuba itself, the peoples have v been extorted by castro to push back the invaders and 300,000 militia men have been mobilized. The invasion was successful in the early hours with castro blaming the u. S. It is the first chunk in his armor. Were back with nicholas dujmovic, a former Cia Deputy chief historian and current director of the intelligence Studies Program at catholic university and hes here today to discuss the 60th anniversary of the bay of Pigs Invasion which was the failed cia backed effort to remove cuban Leader Fidel Castro from power. Nicholas, good morning. Good morning, jesse. It is a pleasure to be with you on this auspicious anniversary. So tell us exactly what happened 60 years ago today on the southern coast of cuba . Yeah, well, let me talk about what it was intended to do and then what happened. Bay of Pigs Operation was a well meaning but totally mismanaged attempt on the part of the u. S. Government to oust the cuban government of Fidel Castro and liberate cubans from communism. It turned out to be a disaster. What was intended was an amphibious invasion of some 1500 cuban exiles trained, armed, supplied, by the central Intelligence Agency, who would come ashore, on the southern coast of cuba, at a remote place called the bay of pigs where they would establish a Beach Head and hold that Beach Head and that would attract dents to the regime, defectors from the cuban military, it would spark a general uprising, it was believed, among the cuban people, that would sweep away Fidel Castro from power, and they would declare a provisional government that would then request the help of the United States. What actually happened, 60 years ago, was that the cuban military was alerted to the fact of a invasion somewhere, they had sufficient security forces in the area to respond far more quickly than the cia planners envisioned. And so there were many mistakes. Air cover was supposed to be guaranteed by a series of air trikes. There was only one air strike. President kennedy canceled actually two air strikes. There were supposed to by total of three. The second one was scotched. The third one was called off at the last minute. So there was no Air Cover over the beaches. And the cuban Air Force under castro had command of the air. And that really chewed up those brave cubans exiles who were fighting for their country, for freedom. It was a it turned out to be one of the biggest blundered in american foreign Policy History and one of the biggest failures in the history of u. S. Intelligence operations. So there is a lot to talk about, a lot went wrong with this, well meaning but very mismanaged operation. So what were the actual results of the invasion . What happened that day and the days after . What were the direct results . Well, in the predawn hours of the april 17th, about 1400 cuban exiles on various Landing Craft, landing ships, actually most of them actually made it ashore, despite the fact that one of the mistakes is that we didnt realize there were coral reefs there and the Landing Craft had a great deal of trouble with those coral reefs causing most of the exiles to have to wade ashore. Because castros Air Force had command of the air, his fighters were able to destroy two Supply Ships that carried ammunition and other supplies for the brigade and so they were caught on the beach, some of them made it as far as 20 miles inland but were driven back. There were some bright spots, there were battles between brigade armored vehicles and tanks and castros tanks. They were able to hang on, surprisingly, for all of two days. And on the afternoon of april 19th, they simply ran out of ammunition. The cuban assault big aid did not give up so much as they simply ran out of ammunition and were captured. So we see here, im going to put up some fast facts about the bay of Pig Invasion on the screen. Not 114 people were killed during the bay of Pigs Invasion including four u. S. Airmen, more than 1100 people were captured from the assault big aid 2506, five b26 bombers were shot down and like you said two u. S. Supply ships sank during the bay of Pigs Invasion. With all of that, what went wrong . You talked about the coral reefs. But what went wrong here . Well, its been said and i totally agree with this, that the operation as a military operation was too small to succeed. Castro, with 1400 men ashore, no matter how well trained, how well positioned, castro was able to quickly mount 20,000 men in arms against them, both regular military and militia. And he had a potential to mobilize 200,000. So the concept of the cuban exiles being able to hang on to this Beach Head is quite debatable. It is important to realize that this started out as a kind of World War ii classic mission for gorillas or commandos. There were anticastro elements in the mountains and the Sierra Maestra and said were going to do to castro what castro in those mountains have done to the Dictator Batista before him. And so as the planning went forward in the late days of the Eisenhower Administration, the plan kept getting bigger. It started with were going to infiltrate 30 gorillas and linking up with force and by the fall of 1960 and especially after the election, it sort of morphed into this conventional amphibious operation that had these presumptions that the cuban people were ready to rise up against castro, it was totally false. One of the mistakes was that the operational planners were not consulting the cia analysts who knew cuba best. The analysts were never asked, well, if were able to put a force ashore, would the cuban people then rise up . I mean, there is a lot of discontent in cuban society, but castros grip on power it seems pretty secure. Any way, the analysts were never asked that question. Let me remind everyone watching that they could take part in this conversation about the bay of pigs 60th anniversary. Were going to open up regional lines which means if you are in the eastern or central time zones, youre number is going to be 207484 thousand and then in the pacific time zone, 2027484001. We want to know what youre thinking on the 60th anniversary of the bay of Pigs Invasion. The line for cuban americans is 207488002. Text us at 2027482003 and were on twitter at cspan and on facebook at facebook. Com c stan. Now at the top of the show, showed a News Reel that referenced a mysterious Training Base in guatemala. If the media knew about this, was this operation ever really a secret . Well, and that is the problem. I mentioned that it was too small to succeed as a military operation. It was too large as a Intelligence Operation to stay secret. You are absolutely right. Castro knew what was happening. I mean, he had agents in guatemala where the cuban exiles most of them were being trained, but also he was relying mostly on american and regional newspaper reporters who would hear things from the cuban Exile Community in miami, and were able to piece together pretty much the whole story. In fact, the New York times on january 10th, 1961, had a front page above the fold with a Map Article explaining that the u. S. Was preparing cuban exiles for action against the castro regime. President eisenhower, who was in the last days of his administration, said that basically they have the whole story. And yet planning went forward. One of the many blunders of this operation. Who were these cuban exiles who were being trained for this Assault Brigade . How long had they how long had they been outside of cuba and what type of support could they realistically expect if when they got back to cuba and this Invasion Force . After castro took power in early 1959, and started nationalizing industries and ex appropriating the classes there was an sked us of people with money who saw that the socialist practices were going to be harmful to them and so you had in southern florida, 100,000 or so cuban exiles, anticastro. The big challenge for cia was trying to unite them into a single front because there were many differences between them. Some of them have been for the previous dictator, batista. And most of the others didnt like that. There were differences of opinion and so that was a great challenge. What cia offers to them was a chance to retake their country. And they signed up. There was a Recruiting Drive and again they were trained in guatemala, nicaragua, a few places in the United States, despite the State Department objecting to that. And they were hoping to take back their country for freedom. Lets let some of our viewers take part in the conversation. Well start with roger who is calling from great neck, north carolina. Roger, good morning. Caller good morning. How are you . Good, roger. Just fine. Caller yeah, hi. I have a question, a very interesting question. In 1898, the u. S. With teddy roosevelt in the 17th volunteer of New York got rid of the spaniards and mckinley sent the rough riders in and everybody into cuba to get rid of the spaniards. Why didnt eisenhower, why didnt kennedy, why didnt they send the u. S. Military in, i was reading a thing about the bay of pigs on Usa Today in las vegas, nevada, and most generals at the time, the cia was not supposed to go in and do military operations. The u. S. Military, the d. O. D. Was supposed to go into cuba to get rid of castro. Yes, um, both Eisenhower And Kennedy were unwilling to commit, at least openly, u. S. Military forces to the over throw of the castro regime. One of the great concerns was to maintain good relations with the rest of Latin America. Latin america, Latin American people saw the United States as over bearing, they didnt like them on road doctrine. They didnt like to be in americas backyard. They and so for good foreign policy reasons, it was ruled out that we would have the United States military openly go against the castro regime. Now, kennedy considered that when it came to the event that happened some 18 months later and thats the cuban Missile Crisis. But that is another story. What made u. S. Officials decide to back this bay of Pigs Invasion . What was going on that made u. S. Officials to consider any type of intervention in cuba at this point. Well castro was definitely cozying up to the soviet union. At the time this is in the depths of the cold war, tensions are high. There is a Arms Race and eisenhower in particular had already acted against what he thought was going to be a soviet Beach Head in the western hemisphere in guatemala. He used cia in a Covert Action to oust the democratically elected president of guatemala in 1954. Cuba as castro gets closer to the soviet union, and is starting to accept arms, is starting to implement socialist policies, is accepting soviet advisers, both kgb and military, eisenhower believed that we we have even a bigger problem with cuba becoming part of the soviet orbit than we had with that possibility in guatemala several years previously. So for eisenhower, it was a matter of keeping the soviets out of our hemisphere and you know, the saying is it is only 90 miles from the United States. Why kennedy went forward with it is a little harder to justify. He did campaign in the 1960 election on freeing cuba, on providing support. He was actually unwittingly saying what the Eisenhower Administration was doing secretly. He was kennedy was advocating it openly. So he was politically committed to moving forward on that and he inherited this plan, this plan that had grown from a Gorilla Infiltration and Supply Operation to a conventional amphibious Landing And Kennedy later rued the fact that he had trusted the experts. This left him with a great skepticism of the judgment of cia leaders and u. S. Military leaders who were encouraging him on. Lets go back to our phone lines and as we do, i want to remind everyone that this is a coproduction with american History Tv, and it is being simulcast on cspan3. So lets talk to henry who is calling from asheboro, north carolina. Good morning. Caller hello. Go ahead, henry. Caller yes, i seen a documentary about castro taking charge of the revolution. He went to the dark skin coupas and said and [ inaudible ]. Some couldnt go, certain jobs, you could abduct and you see there was a lot of dark skinned cubans out there fighting. And [ inaudible ] and when the light skin into america, you see them. You didnt see hardly any dark skin. And you see [ inaudible ]. Even now you see over there. Why didnt they [ inaudible ]. You cant go to the beach at night, certainly beaches you cant go to and go to hotels and stuff like that. And man, they get control and [ inaudible ]. What was going on in the with the cuban people during the bay of Pigs Invasion . Well, there were resistance elements. They were anticastro resistance who were expecting some sort of action, some sort of invasion and were waiting for it. They had weapons, they had explosives. They were active gorilla movements in the sierra mountains. The problem was that in order to keep it secret, because cia believed that some of these resistance groups were probably penetrated by castros intelligence service, they were not told, another mistake. They were not told of the imminent invasion so they could not get ready. They heard about it from cuban media. And not only that, but after the first air strike, which happened two days before the invasion, castro started rounding up suspected dissidents, and a lot of the resistance forces were simply rounded up in the security sweeps. So, if there was a basis for a groundswell of opposition to castro, that this invasion and this Beach Head would have sparked, castro pretty effectively squelched that option, dealt with the potential for resistance by sweeping them all up. Weve talked a little bit about international policy with the United States and the bay of Pigs Invasion. But how did the bay of Pigs Invasion effect national policy . I want to show a clip here of Cuba Policy being discussed during the fourth president ial debate between of 1960 between john f. Kennedy and richard nixon. Here is that exchange. I look at cuba. 90 miles off the coast of United States. In 1957 i was in havana. I talked to the american ambassador there. He said that he was the second most powerful man in cuba and yet even though Ambassador Smith and Ambassador Gardner both republican ambassadors, both warns of castro and the marxist about, in spite of their warnings to the american government, nothing was done. I think that Senator Kennedys policies and recommendations for the handling of the castro regime are probably the most dangerously irresponsible recommendations that hes made during the course of this campaign. In effect, what Senator Kennedy recommends is that the united States Government should give help to the exiles and to those within cuba who oppose the castro regime, providing they are antibatista. Lets just see what this means. We have five treaties with Latin America including the one setting up the organization of american states in bogota in 1948 in which weve agreed not to intervene in the internal affairs of any other american country. And they as well have agreed to do likewise. The charter of the united nations, the preamble, article one and two provide there should be no intervention by one nation in the internal afails of another. And i dont know what Senator Kennedy suggests when he said that we should help those who oppose the castro regime. Both in cube and without. But i do know this. That if we were to follow that recommendation, that we would lose all of our friends in Latin America, we would probably be condemned in the united nations and not accomplish our objective. I know something else it would be an open invitation for mr. Coup chef to come into Lat Irn America and engage us in what would be a civil war and possibly even worse than that. So, what role did questions did castro in Cuba Play in the 1960 president ial campaign . It is such a bizarre situation because nixon is arguing exactly the opposite of what he believes. I mean, kennedy is attacking nixon from the right on cuba. Saying that the cuban revolution has to be quarantined and that the opponents have to be supported. They put out a Campaign Statement that the Eisenhower Administration was not helping providing virtually no help. And so in this debate, which was the fourth of the president ial debates, nixon is countering that Press Statement from the Kennedy Campaign for all of those reasons that he articulated and so you have this bizarre situation, if youre an american voter in 1960, and you dont want the United States to intervene in cuba, you would vote for nixon. Who articulated why it shouldnt happen. Even though nixon himself was actually pressing for the cia to act against castro and even one of the u. S. Military involved. If youre an american voter in 1960 and you want intervention in cuba, youre going to vote for kennedy who actually have serious misgiving about it. Particularly any use of overt force on the the part of either cia or the military. So, it was a bizarre situation. And it definitely played in the election. One of the closest ever. So once he took office, how did how much did the domestic politics have to do with President Kennedys decision making when it came to the bay of pigs . Significantly. Because kennedy and his brother robert, the attorney general, were determined that they would not give the republicans any ammunition that they were chicken. That they were weak. Kennedy, you know, had this persona of vigor and a new way of doing things that contrasted with the kind of dottering sporadic Eisenhower Administration. It was unfair. But that was what kennedy believed. That he could not afford not to act in some way. And so he believed more or less in the plan that he inherited from the Eisenhower Administration. And i say more or less because he accepted it, allowed it to go forward, and yet put severe constraints on it that helped doom its chances of success. Lets talk to eric who is calling from lawrence, New York. Eric, good morning. Caller good morning. Thank you very much. My question is in two parts. Objectively how responsible is President Kennedy or also his brother for calling off the invasion and not giving the Air Cover . That is historically. And second, ive always been taught that central Intelligence Agency is an information gathering organization, but yet if ive understood you correctly and many others, it is been involved in military preparations, training people, military to intervene, perhaps the assassination of give yada. What is the truth about these two military issues because a lot of people felt betrayed by kennedy. I knee one man on the United States of essex who said you dont know what it is like to see the body coming back and to feel that we betrayed people . Yes. A lot of people in cia and the u. S. Military who were nearby on the essex and other ships believed that it was a mistake for President Kennedy to cancel that last morning of ddayar strike, the first strike on the 15th had at best taken care of and disabled half of castros small Air Force. But the few aircraft that he had just played havoc and they were not, they were not disabled by subsequent air strikes. A lot of resentment about that. But it does raise the question, even if the brigade had perfect Air Cover, could it have survived . And there is a lot of reason to believe that the concept was fundamentally flawed, whether or not the big aid had Air Cover or not. In terms of, its a common your question about the Cia And Info gathering versus Covert Action organizations, it is done both from the beginning. From very early on, from Cias Charter with the national Security Act of 1947, there has been an understanding that cia and in addition to collecting intelligence, would from time to time act in what has been called now Covert Action. Covert action under title 50 of the u. S. Law is simply the implementing of a policy to effect political, military, economic conditions abroad in a way that the united States Hand is not evident or can be denied. From the beginning, cia was considered the best u. S. Agency to do that because cia had already established secret relationships with foreigners for this to happen. The difference is that early on cia was in favor of doing covert influence operations. Propaganda, influencing a newspaper, having an agent of influence influencing a particular party or leader. The question was whether cia would do para military activities. Things that involved violence. And thanks to policy derived by George Kenyan of the State Department, cia got that mission in 1948. And so there began, during the Eisenhower Administration, a series of cia para military Covert Actions, some of which were successful, many of which were not. Culminating in, as a Cia Historian, formerly, i used to call the bay of pigs the mother of all Covert Action disasters. Lets talk to ron who is calling from berrien springs, michigan. Ron, good morning. Caller good morning. Good Morning Jesse and nicholas. Nicholas, i remember watching the cuban revolution on tv. I cant remember what year that was but i was probably around 9 or 10 years old and i was rooting for castro then. Now im going to go back to vietnam because im a vietnam veteran, okay. The first thank you for your service. Caller could you tell me the first cia agent, who was an Oss Agent to be killed in vietnam . Well that was john birch. Yeah, im sorry, that was in china. Caller well, in 1945, the first Oss Officer was killed in vietnam. Now, Hoe Chee men helped my forge survived in the pacific because he was fighting the japanese, okay, and he asked us for help. He begged us. He wrote to his constitution on our own and we stab Uncle Hole in the back and now hes the only friend we got there southeast asia. You call vietnam one of your great failures or how about iran when you Coup Day Tat iran and now the revolution going on forever and the same thing with afghanistan. 1979, under carter, you stuck we stick or nose in there and i said after the russians, theyre coming after us and here they are world wide. When are you guys going to get something right . Do you want to respond . Well, you know, i think cia does get a lot of things right. In implementing the policy, the covert poll that constitutes a Covert Action, cia is operating under the desires of the president. The president has to sign a document called a finding that said i find this action necessary and i want cia to do this. This finding is then transmitted in a memorandum of notification to the congress which then could weigh in on it if they so choose. So there is a lot of adult supervision. That is not to say that there havent been mistakes. These are policy failures that are, you know, owned by the u. S. Government at all, it is not just cia. Cia is not doing these things as a Rogue Elephant as once was claimed. Lets remind everyone that we are talking about the 60th anniversary of the bay of Pigs Invasion. Here in washington journal, this is a coproduction with american History Tv and it is being simulcast on cspan3 right now. Nicholas, one of our social media followers has written in with their story of the bay of Pigs Invasion and i want to read to you. This tweet said i was a child in cuba during the bay of pigs fiasco. We hid in the closet while antiaircraft fire raged from the nearby hilltop. The next day we fled the round up of opposition to the countryside and hid for weeks until it was over. What was happening with the people of cuba during the bay of Pigs Invasion . Well, again, tens of thousands of them were rounded up. The result of the invasion was that even though there had been a lot of opposition to castro in the country, because he stood up to the United States, here is a Latin American leader who stood up to the United States, he was more popular than ever with the cuban people and popular regionally. So the action in terms of foreign policy really backfired on the United States. And the exodus continued from cuba for many decades. Another one of our social media media followers has a question for you. If the cia had succeeded in cuba, was there any guarantee it wouldnt have turned into a rightwing dictatorship like other cia south american interventions . Well, im a historian not a fortuneteller but i would speculate that is a certainly a possibility because we saw that happening in other Latin American countries over time, these right wing dictatorships generally became more democratic. So, who knows what would have happened. Lets go to jason who is calling from san diego, california. Jason, good morning. Caller yes, good morning. I would like to ask a question and maybe get some verification, is it true that when castro wanted the revolution and they were celebrating, he came to the United States to meet with american congressman, politicians or whoever, he went to New York, he couldnt find a place to stay, and he had to go to harlem to get a hotel. And nobody came to congratulate him or anything. But Russia And Crushef hopped on a plane and came to the u. S. , came to harlem, walked through the streets of harlem, found castro at the hotel, and he celebrated with castro and from that day on castro, russia had Castros Confidence and took him they became friends. Is that what happened, nicholas . Yes, that is what happened. But a lot of that was political theater. I think castro intented to stay in harlem for appearances. He already was developing a relationship with the soviet union. It wasnt sparked because of this act of generosity on the part of kruschef. These things are usually political theater. It is interesting that on that trip, castro did meet eisenhower wouldnt meet with him but he met with the Vice President , richard nixon. Who was impressed by this young charismatic new leader of cuba. But said afterwards that he is either incredibly naive about communism, or hes one of them. Im going to show for everyone a clip from President Kennedy who was speaking about the bay of Pigs Invasion on april 20th, 1961. Here is what he said. The president of a great democracy such as ours and the editors of great newspapers, such as yours, owe a common on ligation to the people. An obligation to present the facts to present them with candor and to present them in perspective. It is without obligation in mind, that ive decided in the last 24 hours to discuss briefly at this time the recent events in cuba. On that unhappy island, as in so many other arenas of the contest for freedom, the news has grown worse instead of better. I have emphasized before that this was a struggle of cuban patriots against a cuban dictator. We could not be expected to hide our sympathies, we made it repeatedly clear that the armed forces of this country would not intervene in any way. Any unilateral american intervention in the absence of an external attack upon ourselves or an ally, would have been contrary to our traditions and to our international obligations. Did the media and the american people accept President Kennedys angle there on the bay of Pigs Story . He did. And quite to kennedys surprise, his popularity shot up. He was more popular as a result of this and taking responsibility for it. Responsibs Government And Officer of this government, and he took the blame, even though there was plenty of blame to go around. Now, it was athis very Interest Speech because he emphasized that this was the work of cuban patriots, anticommunists who love their country and wanted castro and the communists out. The cuban brigadistas claimed they were using coronavirus to achieve their ends. The average age was around 22, very young, many of them are still alive. Hundred of them are still alive. And so i would love to hear from any of them if they call in. Whats interesting also that kennedy definitely said later in that speech that having ruled out military force unless there is an imminent threat, he did not rule it out entirely. And this may have encouraged khrushchev, the soviet leader,p to do his gamble to Place Mediumrange and intermediaterange missiles, nuclear tipped, in cuba the following year. Lets talk to jay who is calling from indiana. Jay, good morning. T caller good morning. Thank you so much for taking my call. I was a Firstyear Student at university in 1961 and i remember all of this, and at the university it was a colony of refugees or escapees, i guess, from cuba. They lived near us, and i made friends with them. In fact, they introduced me to espresso coffee, which i still love. Ct if i recall correctly, one was a lawyer. The other was a doctor. They were clearly well educated and part of an elite that had left cuba with the help of the United States. And Myre Comment goes to how wee using the Term Freedom because it seemed to me that this is tort my 18yearold Self in 196 and late ter, that what we were really support was an elitist Governing Group who florrished underca batista. It seemed that the real support was for capitalism and not necessarily freedom for the masses. And i dont romanticize castro. I know exactly who and what he was. But i am still wondering if we were really on the side of the people, the masses, and not the governing elite. And i am wondering if you would speak to that. Thank you so much. Yes, well, again, as a historian, i very often take at value what people at the time say their motivations were. Definitely, you know, the u. S. Government working through the cia wanted to enhance american national security. And was upset at the nationalization of industries that weree owned by americans. So there was that angle, too. Yet, they sue sue a mutual interest with t these cubans. In the cuban Exile Community they werent all lawyers and doctors. There were a lot of people who were anticastro who were from the classes that castro, you know, most of his support with. The m peasants and the workers. So its a mixed picture as always, these things are, but i think the rhetoric of freedom is stillho not a bad way to descri these events and try to explain them. What were the consequences of the bay of Pigs Invasions for u. S. Relationships, u. S. Relations with the soviet union . Well, thats the problem because you can draw a straight line from the bay of pigs to the cuban Missile Crisis of october 1962. The soviet leader, khrushchev, saw the bay of pigs failure, failure of the United States, as a great victory for soviet foreign policy and its desire to have inroads into the western hemisphere through cuba. Khrushchev saw this as an indication of Weakness And Indecision on the part. American president , and at their Laterkh Summit in vienna in the summer of 1961 khrushchev basically beat up kennedy rhetorically and late their summero put up the Berlin Wall. Khrushchev also saw this as an opportunity to change the strategic imbalance in nuclear Force Posture by putting these mediumrange Andth Intermediaterange missiles secretly in cuba. His intent a was that he would able to get away with it and then announce it as a Fait Accompli and force western concessions on other issues like berlin. Did President Kennedy or anyone from the United States ever admit the Countrys Role in the bay of Pigs Invasion . Oh, i think so, yes. I mean, it was pretty clear to all through the media, through the Exile Community that cia had been involved. Again, kennedy took responsibility for it. An but an important legacy of all of this is this the fact that kennedy learned not to trust the experts, the Cia Leadership, and the u. S. Military leadership, e felt, with justification, had let him down. He also realized that he had made someat poor Decisions Base on faulty information that he had received. So whenha it comes time for the cuban Missile Crisis, what to do about these missiles that u. S. Intelligence now has detected in cuba, it changed the whole process of Consultation And Decisionmaking and lede to a good outcome. So that is the best legacy of the bay of pigs. Thats the Silver Lining in what otherwise is a great debacle for the United States and for those cubans who fought there. Lets talk to randy who is calling from slaughter, louisiana. Randy, good morning. Caller yes, i hadwas, in my mind, thinking about the chain of events that happened. You had khrushchev that came here in 1959 and then in 1960 you had the shootdown of gary powers and then in april of 61 the bay of pigs and then in october the cuban Missile Crisis. Its interesting how all those things played out. Andd also in 1961 the Berlin Wal was put up. And how all of these things fell into place. Es eroh, yes. There is perceived communist rances in southeast asia, in laos, in the congo. It was aof very it was a tim of high tension in the cold war. At the time of the ballparkrs i was 3 years old and i remember in subsequent years when i went to elementary school, still the cold war, still thebe threat of nuclear exchange between the superpowers. And i remember the drills, the nuns would put us through, to hide us under our desk inot the event of a nuclear attack. There was a lotok of tension. And we sometimes forget that the cold war, we look back on it now with Somee Humor even, but at te time it was deadly serious. We didnt know how it would turn out. Ar thank you for Thatry Litany of cold warar events. Its very true. Itsn really ratcheted up the overall tension. It wasnt until about 20 months after the bay of Pigs Invasion that castro released Thene Bulk of the Exile Brigade prisoners and President Kennedy spoke at a ceremony at the orange bowl in miami for those brigade members. How did that release come about . Yes. Negotiations began between the u. S. S. Government working unofficially, but, still directly, through a man named James Donovan. He had been a former oss member, office of strategic services, a lawyer. He. Had negotiated the Release F francis o gary powers. In the movie a bridge of spies, he ison played by tom hanks. So James Donovan worked with the castro regime, negotiating to free the prisoners. 1,189 were captured. Ind believe nine died in captivity. And castro actually withheld about eight of those that he considered most dangerous. But by december of 1962 he was releasingva them. In exchange for what donovan had negotiated, about 53 million in medicines, pharmaceuticals. And Food Aid for cuba. It turns out that the last one of those Exile Brigade members too get released, was released in 1986. Lets go back to the phone lines and talk to thig calling from plains, New York. Good morning. Caller its cy. Good morning. Caller good morning. I would like to ask how castro was ablee to maintain power was through his Ruthlessness And Death squads and incarceration of his opponents akin to what Xi Jinping does. And many of the communists. And also can you comment on the cia attempts to assassinate Castro Throughgh Poison Cigars D other crazy methods . Thank you very much. Okay. On the assassination attempts, there were many. In 1960, still when eisenhower was impresident , ideas that if P Leadership could be eliminated, then you would have more likely toti have this general uprising sparked byy the infillration of guerillas and later the amphibious landing. It was thought if s we take out Fidel Castro, Raul Castro, who yesterday stepped down from power, Andeo Shea Gau vara, the people would be more likely to rise up against this leaderless regime. Andd there were some imaginativ ideas, most of them never went past the drawing board. There were a few attempts. There was an attempt to enlist mafia figures who were offered 150,00000 for a hit on castro using poison pills. They didnt work. The person never got into a position to use them. In terms of castros hold on regime, youre absolutely right. I mean, its sort of a feature of come nowitzki regimes that they use repression, secret police. A series of informants to keep a lid on any dissent. So ill just let it go at that. What lessons did the cia and other american intelligence communities learn from the failure at the bay of pigs and are any of those lessons still relevant today . Oh, i think so. In terms of the conventional military nature of an amphibious landing, that had never been attempted on certainly that scale before by an Intelligence Agency and never would again. The bay of pigs is not a conventional paramilitary Covert Action. It was never attempted again. Its a oneoff. And iyo think the other lesson that Cia Learnede from this is you have to involve your analysts. The ones who are most expert on a particular region. And that was put into effect by alan Dulles Successor John Mckeown as head of cia. Dulles was required to design and John Mckeown made sure that the best experts, the analysts, would be involved so they could help the operational planners know what is the ground truth. You brought up the fact that Raul Castro has retired as head of the communist Party And Leader in cuba. Looking back over those 60 years since the bay of Pigs Invasion, are we still living with the consequences of the bay of Pigs Invasion . Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Every time the United States intervenes in a country, we generally a forget it. Were not all that historically minded as a people. Perhaps some in cia will still remember it. One of my jobs as a Cia Historian was to ensure that the Cia Work Force did not forget certain things. But when we intervened in foreign countries, they never forget it. And cuba andat the cuban leadership will remind us always that we had attempted this, this bungled etoperation, to replace the government there. Lets talk to bill calling from dover, delaware. Toll, good morning. Caller good morning. I just wanted to say that 60 years ago living with my family in northern virginia, my father woke me up and said, hey, get up, you are not going to school today. Somethings going on. Iv and he woke my sister up and took us into the living room, sat us down in front of, we had a big old radio with short wave on it and everything. And he had the short Wave Band being used by the Cubans Brigade Ton communicate back a forth. So he was actually we were actually listening to them talking on their radios that were during the envision, and subsequent to it. And basically it was aer horrib disaster, of course. You remember my father identifying voices on the radio saying i know this guy. Thats peppy, one of thea leaders. And one of the things that pepe said in spanish but my father translated was that i have one bullet left, we have runipip ou ammunition, our Supply Ships never came in. America nevernd backed us up ani dont know what to do with this last bullet. I am standing in the water up to my waist. Should i shoot it at one of the cubans coming down towards us or use it onol myself . Go ahead and respond, nicholas. Hellet is refer to Jose Peppn Ramon who was the Brigade Commander who used that last bullet to destroy his radio. It was a frantic plea for help. Shortly after that they were completely out of ammunition and were captured. So is there any lessons from the failed bay of Pigs Invasion . Yes. When we are talking about Covert Actions that involve paramilitaryea activities, the president , the national Security Council and Cia Leadership need to really work through the assumptions behind glit, the wh ifs. The problem with the bay of pigs is that every single part of it had to work perfectly for any of it to be successful. That is not the way to rune a Covert Action. So more limited in scope, if we are going to do it at all. There is a debate on whether the u. S. Military should do Covert Action, you know, of this type and leave the influence activities to cia. A. Well, wed like tool thank nicholas dujmovic, a former Cia Deputy chief historian, and intelligenceyo Study Program Director at catholic university for being with us here this morning. Thank you, nicholas. Thank you. Its been a pleasure. Tens of thousands of antivietnam war protesters converged on washington, d. C. , in may of 1971. More than 7,000 were arrested in a single day. Tonight on american History Tv we look back 50 years at the forces that collided on the capitol streets that spring with Journalist Lawrence roberts. He is the author of may day 1971, a white house at war, a revolt in the streets and the untold history of americas biggest mass arrest. Thats at 8 00 p. M. Eastern here on american History Tv on cspan3. Next, jim rosenberger presents a history the bay of pigs crisis, the failed military invasion of cuba