first, an excerpt from mr. churchill's speech. mr. churchill: from stettin in the baltic to trieste in the adriatic, an iron curtain has descended across the continent. behind that line lie all the capitals of the ancient states of central and eastern europe. warsaw, berlin, prague, vienna, budapest, belgrade, bucharest and sofia, all these famous cities and the populations around them lie in what i must call the soviet sphere, and all are subject in one form or another, not only to soviet influence but to a very high and, in many cases, increasing measure of control from moscow. an attempt is being made by the russians in berlin to build up a quasi-communist party in their zone of occupied germany by showing special favors to groups of left-wing german leaders. at the end of the fighting last june, the american and british armies withdrew westwards, in accordance with an earlier agreement, to a depth at some points of 150 miles upon a front of nearly four hundred miles, in order to allow our russian allies to occupy this vast expanse of territory which the western democracies had conquered. if now the soviet government tries, by separate action, to build up a pro-communist germany in their areas, this will cause new serious difficulties in the american and british zones, and will give the defeated germans the power of putting themselves up to auction between the soviets and the western democracies. whatever conclusions may be drawn from these facts -- and facts they are -- this is certainly not the liberated europe we fought to build up. nor is it one which contains the essentials of permanent peace. on the other hand, ladies and gentlemen, i repulse the idea that a new war is inevitable -- still more that it is imminent. it is because i am sure that our fortunes are still in our own hands and that we hold the power to save the future, that i feel the duty to speak out now that i . host: that was winston churchill 75 years ago on march 5, 1946, at westminster college in fulton, missouri. timothy riley joins us from america's national churchill museum at westminster college. timothy, good morning. timothy: good morning. thank you for having me on. host: i want to remind our viewers that we are not only here on "washington journal," but we are simulcasting on american history tv on c-span3 right now as well. so timothy, explained to us what winston churchill was doing in fulton, missouri on march 5, 1946. in fulton, missouri on march 5, 1946. timothy: 75 years ago and a day. it is a question we get asked churchill visit westminster college in central missouri, in the heart of america? i guess the simple answer is the college asked him to come. the longer answer is a little more complicated. it would take you back really to the end of world war ii. there was v.e. day in europe at the end of 1945. the allies had been victorious in europe. rings were looking good for churchill, for harry truman, and of course the other of the big three in the alliance, joseph stalin in the soviet union. they had won the war in europe. shortly thereafter, there was an election in britain, a general election. and churchill's party lost the election. so arguably the most recognizable figure in the world, winston churchill, is denied a job. he is no longer prime minister. and he is by all accounts someone taken aback, somewhat depressed. his wife, clementine churchill, famously said to winston, winston, this is a blessing in disguise, to which winston replied, "well, it's very effectively disguised." churchill was not in the greatest of spirits after the election loss. but it was really on the heels of that loss that he received an invitation from westminster college here at fulton, missouri, where we are broadcasting from here today. and the president of the college, a gentleman named michael coors, said we would like you to deliver a foundation lectureship that is endowed at the college. that letter would have been given to a secretary. churchill would have said, tell them i can't possibly come, thank them. churchill was usually polite in his refusals. but there was a handwritten note on the bottom of the invitation that said, "this is a wonderful school in my home state. if you come, i will introduce you. hope you can do it, harry truman." when the president signed that postscript in longhand at the bottom of the letter, churchill immediately took notice and knew he would be back on the world stage if he had president truman next to him on a platform. i'm not sure churchill knew where westminster college was when he accepted this, but truman's endorsement of that invitation is really the trick that did it, and churchill then began plans in october and november to travel to the united states. spent several weeks in miami. a very smart man, in january, spent several weeks in miami relaxing, painting, and drafting the iron curtain speech. the answer is the college asked, but they had a little help from the president of the united states, who appealed to churchill as well. timothy: -- host: we talked about this a little bit, but tell us what winston churchill''s political status was in the u.k. at that time. his party had been voted out of power. does that mean he had no more political influence? the speech was his opinion only? timothy: he said as much from the platform here at fulton. he said, "what you see is what you get." he said that famously from the state at fulton, although he was very clever. he knew that what you saw was a man who was the leader of the opposition party in britain, next to the president of the united states. seldom does that happen, when you see the president invite the leader of the opposition party to speak. so churchill knew that he was in the right spot. even though he somewhat downplayed his position and said i am here as a private citizen, the world knew. and certainly churchill himself knew his stature, and his power of observation for geopolitics. the truth is, churchill had more to stay -- to say. in the iron curtain speech was his calling card to have a world stage, a platform, ironically in a very small town in the middle of missouri, in the heartland of america. so churchill knew what he was doing when he was saying those words. host: as you said, it became known as the iron curtain speech, that at that point, what was the state of the cold war? where were america and the soviet union at that point? timothy: it's complicated because we have to remember that the soviet union were our allies in world war ii, and that they suffered greatly, millions of losses, of casualties. in the general sense, the americans, and to a degree winston churchill, appreciated the russian people, certainly, for the sacrifice that they made without the soviets. -- the sacrifice they made. without the soviets, the war would not have been made. it was a necessary alliance in the second world war. in the aftermath, the conference in 1945 with fdr, and the later conference with the big three, there was beginning to be a fracture in the alliance. in the postwar outlook was such that -- who is going to be in control of the eastern european countries, central europe? churchill, for instance, wanted to very much defend poland and other countries, thinking it should be a sovereign state. i think joseph stalin had other plans. churchill began to see this. after the victory in europe and after the end of the world war, churchill notices that the americans, the british, went home. they sent their troops back to england, sent the troops back to the states. joseph stalin's armies for the most part stayed put, and they did not retreat east back to moscow. this is what churchill called the iron curtain which had descended across the continent. churchill sees this and warns the world that without a proper buttress to counter that soviet looming threat, the next threat could be infect soviet communism and expansion of their philosophies into europe. and that was the crux of churchill's message to the soviets here at westminster college in fulton. host: let me remind all of our viewers that we are talking today about winston churchill's iron curtain speech, the 75th anniversary. we are going to open up our phone lines for a conversation about the 75th anniversary of churchill's speech. we are going to open up regional lines. that means that if you are in the eastern or central time zone, want to hear from you at 202-748-8000. if you are in the mountain or pacific time zones, you are 202-7 48-8001. you can always text us at 202-7 hundred 48-8003 -- 202-7 48-8003 . and we are always on twitter. remind our viewers, what are some of the other key events in the early days of the cold war? timothy: again, as i mentioned, you really have to start with the end of world war ii, with victory in europe day, which churchill was part of. and of course v.j. day, the victory over japan in august of 1945. churchill was no longer prime minister by that time, and of course harry truman had the big decision to make with the atomic bombs at hiroshima and nagasaki. after that, one of the next major chapters was in fact the iron curtain speech on march 5, 1946, of years ago. -- 75 years ago. after that, the marshall plan unfolded as part of the cold war. some of the ideas on how to reconstruct europe after the war came out of the fulton speech, more importantly, in 1946, churchill was emboldened to make another speech in zurich, where he called for a united states of europe, and set into action many of the things that are outlined in the marshall plan. of course, after the iron curtain speech, many of the things churchill warned about came to pass, and the soviet expansion was real. and the west responded, very much following churchill's playbook come up with the berlin airlift, after the berlin blockade. the truman plan came to be, which was a blueprint taken from churchill's playbook, and it really did inspire the west to ultimately wage their tactics in the cold war for decades to come. host: let's talk about some of the specifics from churchill's speech. i'm going to play for our viewers a piece of this march 5, 1946 speech churchill is talking about his concerns about the policy of appeasement when it comes to soviet russia. here is that part. mr. churchill: this is certainly not the liberated europe we fought to build up. nor is it one which contains the essentials of permanent peace. twice, the united states has had to send their young men across the atlantic to fight -- to find the war, but now war can find any nation, wherever it may dwell between dusk and dawn. i do not believe that soviet russia desires war. what they desire is the fruits of war and the indefinite expansion of their power and doctrines. but what we have to consider here today, while time remains, is the permanent prevention of war and the establishment of conditions of freedom and democracy as rapidly as possible in all countries. our difficulties and dangers will not be removed by closing our eyes to them. they will not be removed by mere waiting to see what happens, nor will they be removed by a policy of appeasement. host: what was churchill actually asking the u.s. to do at that point? timothy: it is very, very telling that a great section of the speech -- the entire speech lasted 50 minutes, in many ways, that section is one of the most important, because churchill is saying quite clearly that he does not think the soviets desire war. he is not suggesting that, but perhaps the fruits of war, and an expansion of their doctrines and power. that is the threat that churchill warned about. and he said cold war -- he said in order to do something about it, the west, namely the anglo-american relationship, written in the united states, need to work together and take this head-on, not a peas. he used the word "appeasement," which were churchill was a very conscious word choice. churchill knew full well that the policy of appeasement that had been floated prior to the second world war was one that did not work out very well. later in the speech, churchill says that there never was a war, meaning the second world war, that could have been prevented like the last one which so recently ravaged, he said, great areas of europe. and he said, churchill, the second world war could have been prevented without the firing of a single shot, no one listened to churchill in the 1930's. and he says here in fulton that surely, ladies and gentlemen, we must not let that happen again, we being the west, the united states and britain, as he said. we need to stanford -- stand firm and not appease the soviet union. he feared if we did than those expanded doctrines of communism would creep westward, and the world would be a far different place. this is churchill's backstop, potential soviet expansion. host: let's let some of our viewers join in on this conversation about the 75th anniversary of winston churchill's iron curtain speech at westminster college. let's start with david, who is calling from denison, texas. even, good morning. caller: good morning. that is a great speech, although you would think that churchill would have certainly known what stalin was going to be up to. as far as stalin being an ally, he was of course allied with germany before he was allied with us. russia and germany invaded poland. russia signed a pact with germany which surprised the world and provided the staging and training ground for german military forces. they were in the process of piloting the versailles treaty. that is how they organize their forces. britain and europe was the only country that had an army left, and it was dwarfed by what we had. it was not that europe resisted russia. america resisted russia on europe's behalf, which is the same thing we are doing now. churchill, why he was not listen to then, he made a lot of mistakes during world war i. he was in charge of the admiralty. the attack in gallipoli was one of the monstrous disasters of world war i. he was up and down as far as all that was going. at the end of world war ii, he was shocked he was thrown out of office, but britain was on its way to socialism. and when people want to compare america's so-called movement toward socialism to venezuela, i say you are wrong. get britain right after the war up to margaret thatcher. that is what you want to look at, not this other. i admire churchill's prescience in 1938-1939. i just finished a book on german bankers, "the warbirds." banking and finance had so much to do with global politics. they were involved with the versailles treaty on both sides, the jewish bankers. they walked away from the treaty because they knew the germans -- it was just going to lead to another world war. they knew the germans could afford it. and then the nazis used the fact they were even there as proof that the jewish international banking was responsible for germany's plight, and ultimately used it as an excuse for what began with the jews. there did not have to be a holocaust. again, i am finishing up the book. the germans would have been happy for the jews to have been ransomed out. there were plans to get them out. the united states refused to raise its limit on letting jews into this country of 25,000. they could not get them out. the u.k. did some of the same kind of stuff. they could have got them out. the germans would have been very happy. they were stealing all their money before they let them out anyway. they were going to get their wealth. they would not have to get their hands dirty on the rest of it. after kristallnacht in november, 1938, that was over with. your response? timothy: there is a lot to unpack there. first of all, your attitudes about churchill and bolshevism, communism, was correct. churchill certainly knew early on -- was not a fan of bolshevism and coming is him. -- and communism. the alliance with the soviets during the second world war was a necessary one. it was simply a repositioning and redeployment of forces. there was no way that the allies , including britain, could have done it alone. churchill would president roosevelt -- wooed president roosevelt to send materials through lindley's. the soviets had a better deal through lindley's -- lend-lease than britain did. but churchill needed help. he was standing alone in 1939 and 1940 as germany was swallowing up pieces of europe. all of europe, for that matter. when it became necessary to form an alliance with the soviets, he did so by matter of necessity. churchill was a shrewd politician, and geopolitics was the arena that he loved to play them -- play in and was very effective in. he made that decision out of necessity, really. ultimately, it was the right decision. but he knew, and that is really coming back to the iron curtain speech, that once the war was over, they needed to go back and deal with the soviets. really that's in large measure what the speech is about. it's about standing up to the soviets, but not alone, but forming an anglo-american alliance, a special relationship, as he called it in the speech. only that relationship in the quote you played earlier, the expansion of democracy, liberty, and freedom that the two countries have long shared, that churchill says the magna carta and the bill of rights -- he says in the iron curtain speech reached their highest manifestation in the declaration of independence. these are the values that the countries together need to face and stand up. that is really what he is looking for in the iron curtain speech. host: so what was his relationship with stalin at that point? we know he had a long-term relationship with president roosevelt. what was his relationship with president truman? timothy: well, by the time of the iron curtain speech, his relationship with stalin was -- this was really the last straw. stalin was livid at the speech in fulton here. he said quite clearly it was warmongering, it was a declaration of war. prior to that, churchill had been somewhat liked to stalin. he would send greetings and say he was a great man, maybe stroking his ego a little bit. but stalin knew full well that churchill was coming after his ideology. the iron curtain speech was the morning -- more than a warning shot against the soviet union. as far as his relationship with harry truman, that is a fascinating relationship. the two men really did not know one another. when they first met at potsdam, right after the end of the war, churchill goes to potsdam with truman and stalin, not sure what to expect of harry truman. i think he was that she had known roosevelt -- i think he was -- he had known roosevelt very well. truman was a man from the middle west churchill did not know much about. i don't think churchill had high expectations for harry truman until truman started to speak, and then churchill realized truman was the right man for the right job. they really forged the relationship, in some ways, on the train ride from washington to missouri on march 4, 1940 six, on the way to the iron curtain speech. the overnight train, there was a little bit of poker diplomacy. the two men played cards and churchill shared early drafts of the iron curtain speech with harry truman, who approved and said, i think this is going to create quite a stir, but i think you are onto something here, truman said to churchill. of course, after the speech, truman distanced himself, uncharacteristically for truman. he said, "i had not seen the speech." eleanor roosevelt did not approve of the speech. she thought it wrecked the alliance her husband and churchill had started. so truman somewhat distanced himself immediately after the speech. but in the end, truman had great affection for churchill's words, and used the speech in many ways as a blueprint for the truman doctrine plan that was the united states' recipe for waving -- waging the cold war. host: let's talk to clarence, who is calling from east lansing, michigan. clarence, good morning. caller: good morning, gentlemen. host: good morning. caller: i have been inspired since january or march about the speech. i never really realized that was given. so far, just been receiving snippets of churchill's speeches he gave. i think he is one of the greatest history people in history, one of the greatest statesmen that ever lived. possibly, we may have been speaking german or japanese or italian if it were not for people like him, you know? i feel like he does not get enough credit. so thank you, sir, for enlightening me. i'm going to seek further and find out as much as i can about the gentleman. thank you. timothy: thank you for calling in. i think churchill's words resonate today, not only the iron curtain speech, but a lot of his great speeches and oratory. he in fact had a vision, and could see a global landscape like few leaders can. it is worth studying. i'm glad we have the chance to talk about him here at america's national churchill museum every day, certainly with milestone anniversaries like the one we are commemorating now. it is a chance for us to look afresh and knew at these words -- and anew at these words. host: the speech was called "the sinews of peace" but has become known as "the iron curtain speech." where did churchill come up with the term iron curtain? timothy: the iron curtain was a 19th-century victorian steel curtain used in the theater. it was a fire safety measure. a fire in the theater, and iron curtain would fire -- would fall across the stage so the fire would not engulf the theater. it was a fire protection measure, really an antique phrase. referring to an iron curtain as a metaphor for soviet expansion, the germans used at first. goebbels used it in world war ii. churchill used it in correspondence with american officials before he used it here in the speech. so it was not a new phrase. so churchill did not coin the phrase iron curtain, necessarily. but he certainly gave it value at the end of the speech here in fulton, and it became really recognized with that. but as you mentioned, churchill's own title for the speech was "sinners of peace." the president of westminster curtain -- west mr. college wrote on i believe valentine's day, asked, what is the title of your speech question mark we are looking to promote it, print programs, taking care of details, and we would like to know what the title of your address will be. churchill replied to the college saying he was not sure. something like "war and peace." in fact, the programs from the day, the green foundation lecture, simply say "winston churchill: world peace." churchill decided on "sinews of peace" the night before. we have in the archive here the near-final draft of the speech with the handwritten notes written by churchill's secretary, who was dictating to his secretary, who was taking the last minute final changes. she inserts a , the paragraph -- she inserts a new paragraph, "i intended to title the speech the sinews of peace." sinews are things that bind us together, make us stronger. he is talking about the alliance, the anglo-american special relationship. that strength would in fact ensure and protect the piece to come. it was quite the opposite of how the speech was in fact public opinion sent in some ways that churchill was a warmonger. not at all what he was suggesting but suggesting a military alliance through strength that would preserve peace. that is with the message was about. host: we are talking about the 75th anniversary of winston churchill's speech. i want to bring to you another bit of that speech from winston churchill from march 5, 1946, where winston churchill is making connections between 1946 and the years that preceded world war ii. here is that part of the speech. [video clip] >> there never was a war. timely action. it could have been prevented without the firing of a single shot. germany might be powerful and honest today, but no one would listen. one by one we were all sucked in. surely we must not let that happen again. [applause] host: why does winston churchill want to make these connections to the 19 these in the years leading up to world war ii? guest: that was a great part of the speech, not only for the words but for the public action. 2700 people gathered in the gymnasium at westminster college and immediately plotted. it was a good gauge of public reaction. he is saying clearly that the last time he sought have been referring to the rise of hitler's and the nazis. in order to prevent the next great tyranny, early in the speech he says there are two main marauders that are threats to civilization, war and tyranny. war was familiar to everyone. they had just ended world war ii . to any was a more abstract notion. tierney was known, because of hitler's, -- tyranny was known because of hitler's. --hitler. he was crying aloud to his countrymen as he says in the speech. no one would listen. here he is on the world stage with the president of the united states at his side saying this is the next threat. those words carried great weight when churchill said them. let's go to -- host: let's go to dennis klein from connecticut. caller: everyone -- let's go to dennis calling from connecticut. caller: is it possible that he actually foresaw the iron curtain years before, maybe two or three years before when he recommended that the allies establish a front through greece and eastern europe to block the soviet army from overtaking europe? as i recall, the allies rejected that front. is that true? guest: i think an argument can be made that it is true. there is a section where churchill refers to and takes credit for greece as being the birthplace of democracy is still being democratic and said earlier that it helped make that so. there were other countries and other regions that were under threat. i think you are right that certainly churchill using his impressions was thinking about this long before march 5, 1946. host: let's talk to carol calling from south carolina. good morning. caller: this question is sort of outside the box. we are facing endemic and also the climate crisis. put yourself into winston churchill's shoes as he was a great believer in the world stability and a visionary, how would he approach the existential threats of pandemic and the climate crisis? thank you. guest: that is an excellent question. it is always dangerous to put yourself in winston churchill's shoes, let alone in his mind. he is no longer with us. but the world is a different place. it is hard to say what he would do or say in the current climate. i think as he said famously, the future is noble but the past can give you hope. if you look at the past, we can be hopeful that churchill might have first of all told us like it was. churchill was very frank with the people in the second world war that there was seemingly unsurmountable odds. he said that this will be difficult. dangers and difficulties will be true and something we need to overcome. it won't be easy, churchill warned, but he said -- he gave the people hope through his words. he was honest. in terms of the current challenges, the new iron curtain's if you will of today, churchill would be honest and say, we have a problem. churchill was a big believer in science. he was one of the first great world leaders to have science advisors at his side before and during the war and afterwards. churchill would have looked to scientists and kept them close at hand. he would have been up to the challenge. he would have seen it and told the people the truth and he would have then acted with knowledge by experts and not try to do it alone. that is in some ways my speculation on how churchill might handle the current climate. host: let's talk to larry calling from minneapolis, minnesota. good morning. caller: thank you for being a guest. it is an interesting topic. my question relates to one man's idea of peace is another man's idea of politics. you played the clip of churchill saying we must not have appeasement. britain went to war in world war ii based on a treaty with poland to guarantee poland's independence. we all know that was basically quickly forgotten because it was not thought to be realistic once we got to 1945. the soviet union actually occupied far more of eastern europe than hitler's did up until hitler's going to poland and war being declared. i guess i take a little -- i guess i would have to disagree that churchill is showing this strong anti-appeasement stance in 1945. thank you. guest: i think it is clear, however, that churchill knew and we talked about this earlier that churchill knew of stalin's track record. he knew that stalin ultimately was not someone he wanted to be friendly with. he had to be so during world war ii and it was a good thing in the end for the allies. the human rights atrocities the philosophical differences was one that churchill did not want to participate in. i think he did see it as a threat and doing nothing he says quite clearly in the speech was not an option. he was quite staunch in his belief. host: one of our social media followers want to know if you know whether churchill blamed the soviet unions influence for his election defeat -- union's influence for his election defeat? guest: i don't know that is anecdotal or what but at the conference, winston churchill is allegedly there with harry truman and stalin and this was july 19 405i believe, -- july 1945, i believe, and stalin is reported to have said to churchill, why are you worried? he was a little worried but thought he would win. stalin was reported to have said, i've never lost an election stalin said to churchill. there is that note. i don't think there was russian interference in the election in 1945, but there was a humorous exchange before he went home and learned he had lost the election. host: on the day of the speech was the international and national media in fulton? do they know how historic the speech was going to be? guest: there was an advanced copy of the speech, not a full copy, but they knew there were hosts and radio broadcasters. there was no television coverage. network television was in its infancy. it was quite an offer that was extended to the middle of america in rural missouri. they asked if churchill would be ok if they televised the speech. he was in cuba before the speech in 1946 and he responded to the request from westminster college and we have the telegram in our archives saying, complicating the occasion with technical experience -- experiments, meaning television. it was not televised because churchill did not want it to be. there were major networks with coverage. the news spread fast with what had been said in fulton. host: let's look at another piece of this tape where winston churchill is talking about the importance of the special relationship between the united states in the united kingdom. here it is. [video clip] >> war on the continuous rise of world organizations will begin without what i have called the fraternal association of the english speaking people. [applause] this means that special relationships between the british commonwealth and empire and the united states of america. host: that special relationship he brings up, was this a new way of describing the relationship between the united states and the united kingdom? guest: certainly the iron curtain speech is the time he used it with greatest currency. he mentions in passing earlier in the year in 1945, but he really gives that term full weight in the speech here at westminster college. much of the speech about the iron curtain and the looming threat but also about shared values between britain and america and the special relationship, the common language, common values of law, the magna carta, the declaration of independence are altogether and churchill realizes that these two great nations and churchill himself was half american. he had a lifelong affinity for the united states and certainly appreciated and knew full well what america and americans did for world war ii. he was really looking to continue to bolster that relationship, that special relationship, a term we continue to use today. the term is one that churchill also knew was something they needed at that time. the great britain that entered the war was not the great britain that left the war. power on the world stage. early in the speech, the united states of america is at the pinnacle of world power and with that power comes responsibility. churchill realizes that his own country is not in that position. in many ways he is shopping for a special relationship and alliance to benefit britain, certainly behind the scenes in his visit to the united states before the iron curtain speech, churchill is trying to broker a deal to secure funding from the united states as opposition leader for his government. he is looking to secure funds to help with the indebtedness of his own country. the relationship is one we talk about today quite a bit, but it was also a relationship in some ways essential for great britain at the time. we have a new book just published on the subject called "the aspiring history of the special relationship." it is by one of our churchill fellows. it is fascinating any new look at the speech and the history of that relationship. host: let's talk to ned who is calling from ketchum, idaho. good morning. caller: i was just wondering if you could comment on our current relationship with britain, where biden throughout the -- the statute they gave us. we are trying to pivot to our new alliance with australia, new zealand, and canada. biden is still trying to keep us in this nato thing. what do you think? guest: as always, it seems with every new administration and every new leader here in britain or the united states, there is a new chapter written about the special relationship. as far as the bust in the oval office, the statue that was on loan from the british embassy after 9/11 has gone back and forth. i happen to know there is a bust of winston churchill and the white house in the private residence. it has been there since 1965. there is no threat that just because a statute is moved around in the white house that the special relationship will fail. that is one thing i know for certain. i also know that we heard from the ambassador to the united states yesterday during our commemoration and we also heard from the state department. there is a renewed look at working together to fight some of the next looming threats, and one of the things they both mentioned separately was climate change as being the new iron curtain or threat. i think that alliance and the special relationship between the two countries will have to be one that we are working together to solve as we have done for so long for the great global problems. i think there is great hope for the special relationship. i don't think it is under threat. i think we will be writing a new chapter in the months and years ahead. host: let's talk to douglas calling from laramie, wyoming. good morning. caller: the reasons and causes of winston churchill having been voted out of office and was no longer seen -- as prime minister. guest: why was churchill voted out of office? he was an extremely effective war leader. in many ways, he stood election at a time when britain was a war weary nation. he had won the war. i don't think the british people had anything against him as a person, s leader -- but as a leader to deal with the issues he hadn't had to deal with in earnest almost his entire time as prime minister, outside of protecting the homeland and dealing with the war effort. the rebuilding was believed by the brits was best left for someone else. and frankly churchill did not campaign well in 1945. he was tired. he made some comments about his opposition and referring to if he won there would be a gestapo state. that is not a good slogan if you are trying to run for office, particularly if you are winston churchill and he suffered a great deal. between the british his ire to take a direction to deal with the internal domestic issues that the nation had to face and churchill frankly is -- churchill's frankly tired campaign was a choice that the british made to go in a different direction and that was when atlee became prime minister. they served together in the war, so he was not unknown to winston churchill. later on churchill is asked of all the labor -- labour, who was your favorite, and he said atlee. he knew that churchill was coming to fulton to make the speech. and ultimately winston churchill is vindicated in large measure because of the rejuvenation he has in the iron curtain speech. by 1951, in the general election, his party wins and he is prime minister for a second time and is now again at the helm as the cold war is waging. he lost in 1945. in some ways it permits him to say things like he said as a private citizen, if you will, though still the leader of the opposition in fulton here at westminster college and rehabilitates his career as he did so many times during his long life and when he stood for election of his party in 1951, he is back at the helm. if there is anything about winston churchill is that you can knock him down but he will always get back up. his perseverance and resolve his extraordinary throughout his long life. host: let's talk to anthony who is calling from green town, pennsylvania. can you get a quick question in? caller: just a question on his attitude toward china and chang kai-shek. i understand george marshall didn't like chang kai-shek. i don't know if churchill did. if they had prevented the communists taken over china then, it would be a different world. guest: that is a good point. china is in the news and people are talking about the great wall and the iron curtain. i can look to a speech and lead you through a whole program but i will simply say that churchill himself avoided the subject in the speech here. he mentioned china in the iron curtain speech. it is almost a throw away line. there are very few such lines in the speech. he acknowledges china's existence and says you americans know china well. i need not talk too much about it here. and he moves on. it would be very interesting to see if churchill had a little more space and had maybe a 55 minute speech as opposed to the 50 minute speech he gave to comment on china. he doesn't take on china in the iron curtain speech at all, but it is a question well worth asking and perhaps we can find time on another program to explore it more in depth. china and its world influence today is something churchill would be talking about if he were alive today. host: congress has recognize your museum as americans tribute to winston churchill. what is your mission there at the museum? guest: it really is to preserve history and to lift up history. winston churchill himself gives great advice to young people to study history. here, we live with history. part of the museum has a 17th century church that was bound in the blitz in london relocated to fulton in the 1960's stone by stone as a tribute to churchill. we have a concrete manifestation of the iron curtain. president reagan dedicated it in 1990. it is a sculpture now who is churchill's granddaughter. we have a monument to history. world leaders continue to come to westminster college and the museum. we had mikael targeted off -- we had mikael gorbachev. the museum plays a great role in that. westminster college platform is for world leaders to make speeches is extraordinary and it is a ripple effect from what happened here on this campus 75 years ago. we are still living with it. history is not old. we are influenced by it today. host: talk about the breakthrough statue. tell us why it is there? guest: ed winter sands, who is churchill's in her, -- who is churchill's granddaughter and an artist wanted to relocate eight sections of the wall from berlin to fulton as a sculpture. she did something interesting. she carved through the abstract mail and female figure so you can break through between communism and freedom. she titled it "the sculpture of breakthrough." she is an artist and has a remarkable work on the campus outside the museum. it is an extraordinary! on the story -- exclaimation point. host: this has been a great conversation. we really appreciate you coming on and talking with us about the history of the iron curtain speech and your churchill museum. what can people expect to see from the museum coming up in the future? guest: join us online right now. if you missed the virtual programming from the 75th commemoration yesterday, we have had world leaders, diplomats, churchill family members commenting. go to our youtube channel and you will see much more about this really rich and important topic. host: what is the website? guest: national churchill museum.org. host: we would like to thank everyone who have joined us on "washington journal and on american history tv for this conversation. we would like to thank timothy riley for being on with us this morning. he is the direct -- the director and curator

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