Type in the code dfw world, and youll get 10 off, not just on suffrage, but for any books that you find that will be in your shopping cart. I want to give special thanks to our director, maise hiken for being a sponsor of the program and so much thanks to the league of women voters in dallas for being our promotional partner. And to keep up with our programs, go to dfw world. Org, or if you missed a program, you can go to our you tube channel and it wont surprise you that the way to find our channel there is to type in dfw world. As i mentioned, lee is indeed a special friend of the World Affairs counsel. She is the host of a terrific program on kera. Its called ceo, where she interviews Global Business leaders and you can catch that, if youve migszssed one of her programs live and go to the kera web site to see some of her past programs. Lee is a senior fellow at the tower center here in dallas at Southern Methodist university, and she also has served for a number of years in a very active members serves on the board of directors on the council on foreign relations. So i get to sit back this afternoon, and listen to your wonderful conversation with ellen, so take it away. Thanks again. Thank you so much. And ellen, its wonderful to have you here with us today. Ellen has written a very readable and highly informative book, suffrage, womens long battle for the vote, and it certainly was a long tough battle. And shes written other books along this subject. Shes a special in women and womens history. She wrote feminism and suffrage, the emergence of an independent Womens Movement in america, 1848 to 1869. She has also edited unequal sisters, which well talk about later and coauthored the textbook on womens history. All of this began when she was at wellesley, and i dont know if you agree with me but my observation has been there are no faithful and fanatical than the wellesley women, including hillary clinton. Its a lot of loyalty. Its wonderful. She got her ph. D. At western, and for the past few years has been at ucla. No sooner had she retired than she married for the first time, which i think is a terrific thing to do, arnold schwartz, a wonderful man. To turn right away to your book. We all imagine that this Womens Movement, in 75yearold slog began at seneca falls. In fact, it had been brewing as part of the abolitionist movement. Is that not the case . Yes, that was the case. The first generation of suffragists were almost to a woman, supporters of the Abolition Movement and actually have learned their skills and their beliefs about human rights and the relative they would have said, the insignificance of sex or race as opposed to the common humanity of all people, and they learned that as they said in the school of antislavery. They learned how to do things that women of their generation didnt do very much, speak in public, write excuse me organize meetings, petition legislators, and begin to draw up a whole set of demands for equality for women. And they learned this in the abolitionist movement. Now, this is the first generation. This connection between antislavery and black rights on the one hand, and womens rights on the other sort of peaks in the post civil war years in the late 1860s and early 1870s in whats called reconstruction in connection with the two of the three reconstruction amendments, the 14th amendment, which gives all persons in the United States incredibly crucial, citizenship, national citizenship, and then the 13th amendment, which is not quite right to say it gives black men the right to vote. It prohibits states from disenfranchising anyone on the basis of race. And it was the decision of the ruling Republican Party. This is the Republican Party of lincoln, to not to include prohibitions on sex as well as race. That leads to the, really, the break up of this historic coalition. Well, going back to those early suffragists who were also abo abolitionists, lets talk about Elizabeth Katie stanton, she married henry, had to move to seneca falls because it was h t health and it was not a happy thing to do. This is an old Elizabeth Katie stanton, thats not what she looked like. We would imagine she looked very very different from that. She and henry went to london on their honeymoon to go to a world conference on abolition and women couldnt even appear on the floor. What did she do with herself . Well, at this point shes on, as you say, her honeymoon, and shes sitting in the balcony, but shes surrounded by women both british and american, much more active in the Abolition Movement than she is. Shes a kind of new bbie in thi area, and she becomes friends with the most experienced and philosophically and politically important abolitionist woman in the United States, a woman 20 years older than her, a quaker from philadelphia. It becomes clear right away, they connect, really they connect on the issue of womens rights and from then on, lou begins to school this young woman. Shes in her late 20s. Begins to school her in the history of womens rights, teaching her to read the late 18th century british feminist, mary lolstencraft. And then eight years after this crucial meeting, it is said, who knows, its a legend, that in london they decided they were going to hold a Public Meeting for womens rights. And they end up doing that eight years later in 1848. By this time, stanton is now living in seneca falls, which is a little town, a sort of bustling, Industrial Town between rochester and syracuse. Shes a little restless, although there are plenty of people this that part of new york who are very experienced activists and reformers. That year is a crucial year. Its a year thats usually known for revolutions throughout europe to begin to lay the basis for democracy in places like france and germany. And the seneca falls, the United States despite the fact that black men and all women, or slaves, many black people, and all women are prohibited from the right to vote. Its still the case that the american electorate is more expansive than any other electorate in the world, and so this seneca falls, lets call it a revolution of 1848 is the american version of the political revolutions in europe. The other thing thats happening in these years, the United States has just come out of a war with mexico in which it has taken over the northern something like, i dont know, third of mexico. Bringing the lands that include my own state, california, and the entry of this enormous swath of territory breaks open a prohibition on the discussion of slavery in the American Congress and from that point on, slavery is an increasingly controversial and fundamental political issue. And the fact that the Seneca Falls Convention raises political franchise for women is connected to the fact that american politics is beginning to grapple with this all important issue, which these women are determined to be part of. Well, as time went on, these women were very interested in their own rights, but it was Elizabeth Katie stanton who understood that they had to have the right to vote or they wouldnt get anything else. Nobody else agreed with her except Frederick Douglass, how did she get involved with this group of women . Well, Frederick Douglass actually had met stanton about five years before in boston when she lived there as a young mother, and he was beginning to work with the boston abolitionists. They were immediately drawn to each other, despite the tremendous differences between them. They were both believers in liberal individualism as the american philosophy, and shall we say they both had a ive thought a lot about their relationship. Im going to write a biography of her after this is all over, and they both suffered terribly from the contempt that was visited on them by people who they believed rightly were much their inferiors. Yes, here he is. Again, this is a little older. Hes a fellow with white hair here. This is probably in the early 70s. He was he had just moved. The year before stanton moved to seneca falls, he moved about 50 miles west to rochester. And he was there starting a newspaper, his lifes desire, and the person who was funding the newspaper was her cousin, derek smith, so they had many many links between each other, and their friendship lasted a half century. It will be a wonderful book. And then theres this marvelous woman, Sojourner Truth, on the cover of the new yorker a couple of weeks ago, she got involved, too, and with a name like Sojourner Truth, who wouldnt want to vote for her anytime, anywhere. Well, her name was actually isabella boundfry, born a slave in the hudson river valley. Oh, no, there were slaves in new york . Yes. And that was a dutch part of new york. Its actually the area where Elizabeth Stanton grew up. Her family actually had at least one slave. H isabella boundfry was finally freed with other adult slaves in the 1820s in new york, and she went to new york, and became sort of born again, we have to say, and she took a new name. She became an itinerant preacher, Sojourner Truth. And in her preaching, she began to preach both about antislavery, and also to talk about womens rights. Shes very interesting because there are a significant number, not a lot, but a fair number of black women who appear on womens rights platforms in these early decades. But Sojourner Truth is the one who most consistently supports the equality of men and women. Even though, of course, she remains a complete devotee of the abolition of slavery and the equality of the races. But as she says, when things get going, things get going like the abolition of slavery and the enfranchisement of black men, lets keep going. She understood what Elizabeth Stanton understood which is this time, this time of abolition and emancipation and black enfranchisement, black male enfranchisement was an opportunity that would not come again for a while for equality for women. And back to boston for a moment when the stantons were there, there was a woman also named Margaret Fuller. She was the woman intellectual in america at the time. She was a part of emersons circle, became a journalist, the First American woman war correspondent in europe, working for greeleys newspaper. She was quite a character. She became a suffragist, too, didnt she . Im not sure she was a suffragist, we cant tell. Not until after the civil war is the demand for the right to vote to come to the top of the womens rights platform. Until then, there are other demands, equality of education, which was very important to her, the ability of women to have professional standing, economic equality, which was also very important to her. Theres some sort of circumstantial evidence that stanton might have been a part of a salon she ran for women, but we dont have any concrete evidence. Theres victoria woodhall, she makes Margaret Fuller seem positively main street and quiet and sedate. She was a faith healer, a number of other things. She was definitely a suffragist, wasnt she . Now were jumping ahead to about 1870. Yes. And victoria woodhall, its amazing there hasnt been a movie about her. There have been a lot of great biographies. I remember one that was allegedly purchased by nicole kidman, who would have played a great victoria woolhall. Shes fabulous. Somehow these never got made. She was the daughter of, its not even fair to say working class. Her family was sort of carnival, whats the right word, you know, carnies. She was taught how to trick people, but she also had she seems to have had hard for us to say this now. In her years, it was believed she had psychic abilities. She and her sister rose in the civil war years through the patronage of some powerful men, unclear how they got the patronage. It was cornelius vanderbilt, wasnt it . One of them was commodore vanderbilt. One was congressman ben butler, and she had powerful supporters. She had her own newspaper. And she had the ear of important politicians, and in 1869 or 70, she is able to come before a Congressional Committee and make an argument that suffragists have been beginning to make for a while, a very important argument. The argument was that the 14th amendment properly understood because it made all Americans National citizens and fwagaifr equal rights. Who could but disagree that the right to vote was a right of citizenship. She made that argument in front of congress, in front of the Congressional Committee. It was the basis of that argument, that contention, that constitutional argument that susan b. Anthony goes to her polling place in 1872 and is able to convince the polling officers to let her vote for president , and she actually casts her vote. She is then a few days later arrested under the federal statute, making it a crime to vote knowingly illegally. Criminal voting, it is this, by the way, which President Trump unknowingly has pardoned susan b. Anthony. I dont think he understood that she was found guilty, not only of voting but of voting on the grounds that all american citizens had the equal right to vote. I do not think he understands that. Anyhow, both susan b. Anthony. Well, susan b. Anthony, and victoria woodhall were both arrested within weeks of each other. Woodhall was thrown in jail in new york city. Anthony would have liked to have been thrown in jail. She wished very much to be a martyr to the cause, but the man running the trial who was actually a Supreme Court justice knew he was not going to give her the benefit of throwing her in jail and refused to allow her to do that. Well, we can add that victoria woodhall had lots of mar marriages lots of lovers and made a lot of money on wall street. But she was Something Else but this 14th amendment is very interesting. Then there was a case brought in illinois, was there not, a woman named myra bradwell, is that her name . Well there are two important cases that come before the Supreme Court in the 1870s. They both are 14th amendment cases. Myra bradwell was a lawyer in chicago, and she was being kept from membership in the illinois bar before the illinois bar, and she argued that the 14th amendment properly understood protected her right of equal professional rights so that her right to practice her profession must be protected equally with men. The court in a sort of Summary Judgment rules against her in, i cant remember, 1872 or 1873. Then there is a case and any of you who went to law school and were lucky enough to have any training in womens rights will know about these two cases. The other case is a case that comes before the court in 1874, and the woman who brings that case before the court is a st. Louis woman named virginia minor. Like anthony, she tried to vote in 1872. Unlike anthony, she was not allowed to cast her vote. Unlike anthony, she was able to take her case up to the Supreme Court, and in 1874, the court heard her case. She made exactly the same argument that anthony had. Im a person, therefore a citizen. Im a citizen, therefore i have equal rights and privileges protected by the federal government with all other citizens. The right to vote is one of those privileges. One of those rights privileges, and the Supreme Court said yes, you are a person, yes, you are a citizen. Yes you have equal rights with all other citizens but no, the right to vote is not a right of national citizenship, and if that court ruling had gone differently and been followed, the world we live in would be a very very different world because it is still the case that there are not federal protections for the right to vote. The right to vote is under the control of the states. And the federal government, especially with the Voting Rights act taken apart, has almost no ability, should there be a federal government that was interested in protecting Voting Rights, has not ability to overrule states and insist on equal rights to the voter. The vote remains as it was decided in that 1875 case. It is a privilege, not a right, and a privilege controlled by the states. Well, the suffragists became discouraged understandably, and decided to go state by state by state, try to get the state legislators to amend their constitutions to allow women the right to vote. Some western states had granted women the right to vote, including wyoming. It was much earlier, and they had very practical reasons. So let us be clear, the other side of the insistence that the right to vote was controlled at the state level was the suffragists, once it seemed correctly to them that they were going to be unable to get the constitutional amendment passed and as Elizabeth Stanton said, the constitutional door had had been slammed shut where it remains until 1910s, they turned to the states, and they started to go to shows states which we were were most likely to enfranchise women, and these were western states. Sometimes its said because western women, they didnt we wear and they were their husbands help meats, i think its a more practical reason. Its because, you know what, i have to get a kleenex, its not because im doing anything with any illegal substances that i was sneezing. If you can wait one moment. Absolutely. I have one right at hand. I have allergies myself, texas is the same as california. What she was about to say is wyoming needed women, well, it had a lot of men, preponderance