Cspan3, created by americas Cable Television companies as a Public Service and brought to you today by your television provider. I come here tonight to the Al Smith Dinner knowing im the underdog in the final weeks. If you know where to look, there are signs of hope. Even in the most unexpected places, even in this room full of proud manhattan democrats, i cant i cant shake that feeling that some people here are pulling for me. [ applause ] im delighted to see you here tonight, hilary. [ laughter ] i was thrilled to get this invitation and i feel at home here because its often been said that i share the politics of alford e. Smith and the ears of alford e. Newman. Its an honor to be here with al smith. I never knew your great grandfather. From everything that senator mccain has told me [ laughter ] the two of them had a great time together before prohibition. Of course im delighted, but not surprised, by the final repeal of the 18th amendment. I felt all along that when this matter was properly submitted to the rankandfile of our people, they would readily see that it had no place in our constitution. It would be very difficult if not impossible to estimate what would come to this country from the lessons taught to the coming generations to make it their business to see that no such matter as this is ever again made the subject of federal constitutional law. And youve been listening to the 2008 president ial nominees talking at that years annual Al Smith Dinner followed by al smith himself talking about the lifting of prohibition in 1933. Hello and welcome to cspans the contenders series. We come to you live tonight from albany, new york, where al smith served for 12 years before being elected governor and becoming the democratic nominee for president in 1928. Our guests for the next two hours, as we relive the 1928 president ial election and the life and career of al smith, john evers, the former historian for the new York State Assembly and hes a ph. D. Candidate at soonny albany and doing his sisseration on al smith and joined by bethany gage. Shes a history professor. Professor, gage, set the scene for us to begin. 1928, the United States, what was going on in this country, what were some of the issues that were going to be discussed in the 1928 election. At the 1928 election is one of the most interesting and also one of the most vicious elections in American History. We have two candidates who i think really embody two different sorts of americas that are coming into conflict in the election. So we have al smith, who is the subject tonight, al smith is urban. Hes from new york city. Hes an irishman. He is catholic and he represents a kind of immigrant, urban america that has come of age in the last 30 years. On the other side, as a republican candidate in 1928, we have Herbert Hoover who in many ways would hardly be more different from al smith. Hes from the mid best. Hes from iowa. He is very straightlaced. Hes distinctly nonurban. Hes pious and these two men in 1928 really encapsulate some of the most important cultural and political clashes of that moment, clashes over prohibition. To some degree, clashes over the economy, but in many ways, this turns out to be a cultural election that hinges on which of these two americas is the america thats going to be voted into office. Its been said that the three ps influenced this election in 1928, prohibition, prejudice, and prosperity. I think the three ps capture it. On prohibition, we have al smith who is one of the nations most outspoken opponents of prohibition. Prohibition has been in effect for almost a decade and it has been a real problem for most of that time and throughout al smith, like many urban politicians, has said that its a bad idea not only because it infringes on americans freedom, but because its causing a Law Enforcement crisis and there are many people who are concerned about this by 1928. Whats going to happen to prohibition is certainly one of the big questions. We have Herbert Hoover on the other side. In terms of prosperity, as you might imagine, both of them are running in favor of prosperity. The problem for al smith is that youve had eight years of republican rule in the presidency by that point, first Warren Harding and then followed by calvin coolidge. And the republicans have a leg up on the prosperity front. Youve had the 1920s. Its been a boom decade certainly for wall street. Although less for farmers and agriculture agricultural at that point. Thats our second p. And the darkest part of this election and why it was one of the most vicious elections in history is the third p, the question of prejudice. And al smith, i think most americans today are probably more familiar with john kennedy as a catholic candidate. Even in 1960, that causing real stir, a real set of questions about the presidency, but al smith raised all of those questions much early in 1928 which already had been a decade that had been seized with a lot of questions about immigration, Immigration Reform, the rise of the cue cluku klux klan. It was a Vicious Campaign and smith was not this was not new to him. When he ran in new york state to be governor of new york state. In 1914, martin glen faced anticatholic prejudice. It showed up in the 1915 Constitutional Convention as a little bit of a whispering campaign. He went into this in advance of the election knowing this would be an issue. In fact, he addressed this issue in 1927 in his he ply to the Atlantic Monthly discussing why a catholic man could be president although it was a very good statement, but it was intellectual and it went over everybodys heads. We are in the new York State Assembly chamber in albany new york, finished in 1894. We also are pleased to have join us a studio audience of albany area residents, historians, some interested in al smith here, and theyll have a chance to ask questions about our two guests. And were going to put the phone numbers on the screen. Were not going to take phone calls for a little while. Were going to put them on the screen so you can start to dial in now. This is the sixth in our 14week series, the contenders. 2027370001, 2027370002 if you live in the mountain or pacific i assume zones. What kind of of a candidate was al smith in 1928 . 7370001. 7370002. He was a fighter. If you look at him and the short stature and the pugnaciousness of him and his voice comes out all across america and this is one of the First Campaign where radio plays a role. He campaigns from the back of trains which is very common, but he goes out there and tries to engage america on issues that are important to americans and as we already talked about, they didnt want to talk about those issues. Prosperity was there, so he couldnt talk about issues and say that im the candidate of the prosperity and the Republican Party. He wanted to talk about water power and prohibition which was just unheard of, but he came out as a fighter and his speeches were well reasoned. On paper, he was a fantastic candidate, but he was swimming uphill the whole time. Beverly gauge, electoral vote count in 1928, 87 for al smith and what states did he win and why . It was definitely a blowout election and i think the real, in some ways we can almost say al smith, maybe he should thank his lucky stars that he did not, in fact, win the 1928 election and Herbert Hoover, we may remember al smiths name a little more, but what would we remember him for . It was one for such a Nasty Campaign and one of the questions of the election ultimately became was it prosperity . Was it simply the fact that republicans could take credit for this boom decade and therefore smith never really had a chance or was it a rejection of all the things that smith really felt deeply and that he stood for . And i think smith really took that to heart and he was concerned about that and the nastiness of that campaign. So he had some support, but not a whole lot. Theres a fourth p and progressivism. Al smith was known as a progressive during his time in the legislature and during his time as governor and did that play an issue at all and how was it . Progressivism is a turn of the century phenomenon and begins around 1900s and say Teddy Roosevelt is our pioneer progressive and what it means by the 1920s is very hard to define in many ways. There were people who called themselves progressives who supported prohibition and who were impassioned about it and there were some proopposwho werd to prohibition and there was a sense that had come about and that al smith really did stand for, that you could use government in new and proactive ways to deal with some of the really pressing social and industrial conditions that americans faced back in the early part of the 20th century, and al smith as governor and running as a candidate for president really tried to make that case. He changes his mind later as the new deal comes along and that was the basic idea of progressivism and the idea that you could use federal power to change peoples lives for the better. Thats a key point about smith. You talk about the new deal today. We talk about the programs and the Social Security issues and all of the things that fdr brought in. When smith ran for president he had experimented with all of these things in new york state. He was a champion of the labor issue and the champion of the hydroelectric power and he was one that wanted to spend money for the social programs of the state and they were fore runners of the new deal and when he ran in 1928 people didnt want to talk about that issue and it was this unknown politician that had this thick, new york accent that came out to the farm country. And even smith when he campaigned, he had one funny story. He was driving on the train to wyoming and they were about an hour out and he sees a horse out in the field and he says to someone, he must be getting close to civilization, thats a horse out there. And we have about an hour to go and it showed how much smith was out of his element and he was used to new york and the country was used to someone other than a new yorker and they were used to that prosperity and the calvin coolidge, warren harden. Were you an automatic for consideration on the stage . Absolutely. Al smith was am nominated and i was the favorite son candidacies and they nominated al smith for governor or president in 1928 and it went one round and they dropped the votes and they go with eventually it was the cops from ohio. In 1924 they went out for smith and it was 103 ballots and they had to compromise candidate who is also a new yorker. In 1928 he wins the nomination and all through history, the new york governor is automatically considered president ial material and if you look at the people that have run and won and those that have run and lost, through history. I think that its new york was incredibly important and there were two key political states and new york is one of them and ohio was the other one and they kept producing president after president and i dont think we have states quite like that anymore, and maybe we can look to Something Like texas, and when you look at the Republican Party, and you see Teddy Roosevelt and Charles Evans hughes coming out of politics and you look at the Democratic Party and you see smith and Franklin Roosevelt and new york as a state has two machines really going and it has a pretty Significant National effect. Two machines . The famous machine is the republicans had an incredibly powerful network, as well. So tamany hall is the new york city Democratic Party and the manhattan Democratic Party and tamany hall from the mid19th century was best known as the machine of machines in urban america. So it was identified as primarily irish machine. A machine in new york that really depended on neighborhood power, word power and that was as much as taking care of your neighborhood and coming up with your neighborhood as National Politics and tamany the most powerful folks certainly in new york City Politics in that moment and in new york state, Democratic Politics, how does tamany hall fit into the 1928 election. That was the brush that painted smith into the corner. We talked about the issue and this started in the convention in 1928. Tamany hall would go to the conventions and new york was a key state and they would nominate the Democratic Candidates and many elections and they had the democratic candidate and Teddy Roosevelt ran in 1904 and the chief judge of the court of appeals in new york state and one was a republican and one was a democrat. Tamany hall was seen in new york state as the corrupt machine and it was seen as boss tweed and people like William Jennings bryant would rant about tamany and he didnt want a tamany man there, and smith is the tamany man and the candidate and it shocked many of the people within the Democratic Party. Al smith lost new york in the 1928 election. And he had the sad fate of losing the race for president of the United States in seeing his hand picked successor and fdr wins and it flips the dynamic of smith and roosevelts relationship forever and ultimately roosevelt winds up where smith wanted to be and smith winds up in retirement. When we asked you prior to the show some of the issues that we thought were important to the 1928 election and one that you mentioned was the role of the media in 1928. Why . Well, i think, particularly for al smith came off as a media battler and one of the most powerful newspaper tycoons in the country and so smith, i think, had a certain amount of confidence by 1928 that he knew how to fend off those kinds of press attacks and ultimately in the election and one of the interesting things about the catholic issue is that we now understand the two have been absolutely crucial to his election and smith openly acknowledged it and a lot of it was done and talked about through innuendo. John mentioned earlier the idea of a whispering campaign and that it wasnt something that was going to be said in the press and at the same time the press was going to feed into these images and so i think smith from my reading of it, anyway, was sort of behind from the first with the press in part because there was so much coded language being used in part because the press liked to sort of of a feisty personality and they liked to write about it, but was quite con tetemptuo out of it. One of the things that was interesting about smith and the press is he loved the press. He used to hold press conferences here in albany and the press corps got to know what was on the record and off the record and his newspapers in new york state and he enjoyed that. When he left the safe confines of new york state and this whispering Campaign Came out and there were papers that werent friendly to him and werent covering the issues that were with the campaign and he wasnt used to that and he wasnt used to the media of the day and the pie plate. He used to call the microphone that youd speak to, and he accepted the nomination for the president of the United States. He would speak into the microphone. He did not like to read prepared speeches and he didnt like ed o write on the backs of envelopes and he said ill address the nation about these things and ill speak from the heart and when it started to be more of the prepared speech, she was used to doing the campaign of the old tammy hall way meeting people, greeting people and going out amongst them. You also mentioned the rise of radio, and i think that made a huge difference in how americans were able to perceive smith because he is this new york guy and do you want to attempt to do an al smith impersonation . I dont have a deep enough voice. The fact that people could not only read about it, but could actually hear him and in many ways to broad swaths of americans he sounded foreign, right . He sounded different from them, and that became another big issue in the campaign. So this was the First Time Ever that people were able to hear in mass media their canned theas, correct . Oh, yeah. As radio started to get bigger and as media started to circulate tv came much later, but people would hear the campaigns from their war leader, from their political machines. Theyd read it in the paper. They didnt see the candidate and let alone hear the candidate and when you have a candidate that comes out there pronouncing radio as radio or hospital as hospital and people would ask is this guy an american and that would add to the whispering campaign. Again, we are live from the new York State Assembly chamber in albany, new york. The contenders, al smith, fourtime governor of new york 1928 president ial nominee for the democrats. 2027377001 in the eastern time zone. 2027377002 if you live in the mountain and pacific time zones. Well return to the 1928 election as often as our callers, our questioners want to, but we want to learn a little bit about what and where al smith came from. Here is a little bit of al smith talking about how he was raised. I was born down in 174th in a little house right under the brooklyn bridge. You know, the bridge was erected when i was a small boy. My father was at the Opening Ceremony and when he came home he said, al alfred, ive witnessed a bitter disappointment. What did he mean . Heres