Well. San francisco was the sight of the signing of the it is an appropriate place to hold this debate, the subject of which is foreign and defense issues. The questioners tonight are max trewhitt, and richard valeriani, Diplomatic Correspondent of and be seen news. News. The ground roles are the same questions will be alternated between candidates. Governor carter will take the first question. Each question sequence will be as follows. The question will be asked and the candidate will have three minutes to answer. His opponent will have two minutes to respond. Prior to the response the questioner may ask a followup question to quote clarify with up to two minutes to reply. Each candidate will have three minutes for a closing statement at the end. Resident ford and governor carter do not have it prepared remarks with them this evening but they may take notes during the debate and refer to them. Mr. Frankel, you have the first question for governor carter. Democrats last ran our Foreign Policy, the country has been relieved of the vietnam agony and the military draft. We have started arms control negotiations with the russians, we have opened relations with china, we have regained influence with the arabs without deserting israel. Maybe now we have even begun the process of the peaceful change in africa. You have objected in this campaign to the style with which mustve much of this was done. Do you really have a quarrel with this republican record . Would you not have done any of those things . Gov. Carter i think this Republican Administration has been all style and spectacle and no substance. We have a chance tonight to talk about leadership, the character of our country and a vision of the future. Instances,e of these the Ford Administration has failed and i hope tonight that mr. Ford will have a chance to discuss the reasons for those failures. Our country is not strong anymore. We are not respected anymore. We can only be strong overseas if we are strong at home. When i become president we will be strong in those areas and in defense with a defense capabilities second to none. Have ignored or excluded the American People in congress from participation in the shaping of our Foreign Policy. It has been one of secrecy and seclusion. We have a chance to become now contrary to our longstanding beliefs and principles, the Arms Merchant of the entire world. We try to buy success from our enemies and at the same time we have excluded from the process the normal friendships of our allies. In addition to that we have become fearful to compete with the soviet union. Beenoviet union has getting what they want. We have not known what we wanted. I want to make this about defense we have got to be a nation blessed with the defense capability that is efficient, focused,llorganized, fighting capability, the ability to fight if necessary is the best way to avoid the chance for a fight. Kissinger have continued on with policies from richard nixon. Even the republican platform has criticized the lack of they have and criticized the Foreign Policy of this administration. This is one instance where ira republicanwith the platform. As far as Foreign Policy goes, mr. Kissinger has been the president of this country. Mr. Ford has shown an absence of leadership and an absence of a grasp on what this country is and needs to be. That is one of the major issues in this campaign 1976. Pauline mr. Ford, would you like to respond . He is speaking in broad generalities. Carter in november of he wanted to cut the Defense Budget. A few months later he said he wanted to cut the Defense Budget by 8 billion or 9 billion. Recently he spoke about cutting the Defense Budget by seven or 7s 5 billion billion. Et me tell you a little story 1975 iate october of asked the then secretary of defense mr. s blessing mr. Slashing her mr. s lessing juror if secretary of defense said we cut the Defense Budget by 5 billion, we will have to cut military personnel by 250,000, civilian personnel by 100,000, jobs in america by 100,000, we would have to stretch out our aircraft procurement, we would have to reduce our Naval Construction program, we would e to stop the redo research and development for the army by 8 , we would have to close 20 military bases in the u. S. Immediately. That is the kind of Defense Program mr. Carter wants. Let me tell you this straight not the shoulder you do negotiate with mr. Brezhnev from weakness and the kind of Defense Program that mr. Carter once will mean a poorer negotiating position. Henry my question is the other side of the coin we have had a Foreign Policy based on the containment of communism, get we have lost to first war in vietnam, we have lost a shoving match in angola, and generations have recently cooled with the soviet union. What do you do about such cases as italy and does this general drift mean we are moving back to Something Like the old cold war relationship with the soviet union jack union . Pres. Ford i believe it is in the best interest of the world as a whole that the u. S. Negotiate rather than go back to a cold war relationship with the soviet union. I do not look at the picture as bleakly as you have indicated in ewhitt. Estion, mr. Tr the u. S. Has had many successes in recent months. We have been successful in particle, where a year ago it looks like there was a great possibility that the communists would take over in particle. It did not happen in portugal. It did not happen. A few months ago or i should say two years ago, the soviet union looked like they had continued strength in the middle east. To Prime Minister rabin, the soviet union is weaker in the middle east than they have been in many years. In fact, the soviet unions relationship with egypt is at a low level. The soviet Union Relationship with syria is at a very low point. The United States today according to Prime Minister rabin of israel is at a peak in its influence and power in the middle east. Lets turn for a minute to the Southern African operations now going on. The United States of america took the initiative in Southern Africa. We to wanted to end the bloodshed in Southern Africa. We wanted to have the right of selfdetermination in africa. We wanted to have majority rule with the full protections of the rights of the minority. We wanted to preserve Human Dignity in Southern Africa. We have taken the initiative and in Southern Africa today, the United States is trusted by the black frontline nations and black africa. United states is trusted by the other elements in Southern Africa. Foreign policy under this administration has been one of progress and success. Instead of talking about soviets , we can talk about american successes. Might i make an observation . I do not believe it is in the best interest of the United States and the nato nations to have a communist government in nato. Mr. Carter has indicated he would look with sympathy to a communist government in nato. I think that would destroy the integrity and the strength of nato and i am totally opposed to it. Unfortunately he has just made a statement that is not true. I have never advocated a communist government for italy. Be i think this is an instance of deliberate distortion. Fact, i havef never advocated any cut of 15 billion in our Defense Budget. A political made football out of the Defense Budget. He cut the pentagons Defense Budget after he fired david after he fired his secretary of defense. When Ronald Reagan won the texas primary election, mr. Ford cut billion. Her 1. 5 his own office of management and budget testified that he had a 3 billion cut insurance added to the Defense Budget under pressure from the pentagon. Obviously this is another indication of trying to use the Defense Budget for applicable purposes, which he is trying to do tonight. We went into south africa late. Fter great britain, rhodesia we did not go in until right before the election, similar to what took place in 1972 when mr. Kissinger announced peace in japan just before the election of that time. The other countries in europe supported the Democratic Forces in portugal long before we did. Were muchal dictators longer much of whatarter, they u. S. Does abroad is in the name of the National Interest. What is your idea of National Interest . What should the role of the United States in the world be . You take some pride in being a washington outsider. Wouldnt it the appropriate for you to tell the American Voters the people you would like to have in key possessions positions such as secretary of state in the white house . Gov. Carter i will not name my cabinet before i get elected. I have some ways to go before i do that. I have an adequate background. I am the First Military graduate since eisenhower. I served as governor of georgia and have traveled extensively in foreign countries, europe, the middle east, and japan. I have traveled the last 21 months among the people of this country. I have talked to them and listened and i have seen in a vivid way the hurt that has come to this country in the aftermath pakistan, chile formally, what we were so proud of, the strength of our , the representation in Foreign Affairs of what are constitution stands for is gone. The American People have been excluded. I believe i know what this country ought to be. I have been one who has loved my nation as Many Americans do and i believe there is no limit placed on what we can be in the future if we harness the tremendous resources militarily, economically, and the stature of our people in the future. Every time we have made a serious mistake in Foreign Affairs it has been because the American People have been excluded. If we trusted the common sense and good judgment of the we caneople from once again have a Foreign Policy will not make us ashamed. This is what it takes to have a sound Foreign Policy. Strong at home, Strong Defense, do not betray the pit bulls of our country. From time mr. Ford speaks a position of secrecy and negotiations and secret treaties , and supporting dictatorships and ignoring human rights we are weekend of the rest of the world knows it. We can restore the strength of our country. Experience in Foreign Policy other than a president but my knowledge of the people of this country and my commitment, those are the best bases to restore our own country to a position of leadership in the world. How specifically will you bring the American People into the decisionmaking process on Foreign Policy . What does that mean . Quit making i would the decisionmaking process in secret as had been has been characteristic of mr. Kissinger and mr. Ford. Made decisions in vietnam readyly the president of asia announced he has unequivocal commitments from mr. Kissinger he cannot reveal. The American People do not know what those commitments are. We have seen in the past the destruction of elected governments like in chile and the strong support of military dictatorship there. These kinds of things have hurt us very much. I would restore the concept of the fireside chat, which wasnt inimical part of the presidency of roosevelt. When harry truman was president , he was not afraid to have a strong secretary of defense made a bluffing statement we were sure we had the backing of the congress and the people. This is the responsibility of the president and i think it is damaging for the president to have turned this over to the secretary of state. Pres. Ford governor carter again contradicts himself. He complains about secrecy and yet he is recorded as saying in the attempt to find a solution in the middle east he would hold unpublicized meetings with the soviet union i assume for the purpose of posing proposing a settlement on israel and the United Nations. Let me talk about what we have done to avoid secrecy in the Ford Administration. The u. S. Took the initiative in working with israel and egypt and achieving the sinai to agreement. I am proud to say that not a single egyptian or israeli soldier has lost his life since the signing of the sinai agreement. Time i submitted the sinai agreement to the congress of the United States, i submitted every single document that was applicable to the sinai to agreement. It was the most complete documentation by any president of any agreement signed by a president on behalf of the United States. As far as meeting with the congress is concerned, during months i have been president of the United States, i have averaged better than one month with a members of the house and senate. The secretary of state has appeared in the several months he has been the secretary before 80 Different Committee hearings in the house and senate. The secretary of state has made overr than 50 speeches all the u. S. Explaining american Foreign Policy. I have made myself speeches in various parts of the country where i have discussed with the American People defense and Foreign Policy. Pauline mr. Frankel, a question for president ford. I would like to explore more our relationship with the russians. They used to brag that because of their greater patients that they would sooner or later get the better of us. Is it possible that despite some setbacks in the middle east, they have proved their point daca their point . Our allies are now flirting with communism. We have virtually signed in helsinki and agreement that the russians have dominance in Eastern Europe. We bailed out soviet agriculture with their huge grain sales. We have given them large loans, access to our asta technology, and if the senate had not interfered with the jackson amendment, may be would have betterhem even easier loans. Is that what you call a twoway street . Believe we have negotiated with the soviet union since i have been president from a position of strength. Shortly before i became president in december, 1974, i met with general secretary brezhnev and we agreed to a the Ballistic Missile launchers at a ceiling of 2400, which means that the soviet union, if that becomes a permanent agreement will have to make a reduction in their launchers that they now have our tone to have or plan have. Onegotiated a limitation their Ballistic Missiles at a figure of 1320, which is the first time a president has established a cap. Tohere we can go to a green sales. Grain sales have been a benefit to american agriculture. 5. 75 yearhieved a sale of 6 Million Metric Tons, which means that they have already bought about 4 Million Metric Tons this year and are bound to buy another 2 Million Metric Tons to take the corn and wheat the American Farmers have produced in order to have full production. These grain sales to the soviet union have helped us tremendously in meeting the costs of the oil we have bought from overseas. Helsinki im glad you raised to this mr. Frankel in the case of nations signed an agreement, including the secretary of state for the vatican. I cannot under any circumstances believe that his holiness the pope would agree by signing that 35 nationshat the have turned over to the warsaw pact nation, the domination of Eastern Europe. It just is not true. If mr. Carter alleges that his holiness by signing that is totally inaccurate. What has been established accomplished by the helsinki agreement . We have an agreement where they notify us or we notify them of any military maneuvers that are to be undertaken. Have done in both cases where they have done so. There is no soviet domination of Eastern Europe and there never will be under a Ford Administration. Im sorry, di