Democrats Walter Mondale and congresswoman ferraro in the general election, winning the popular vote 59 41 . Ms. Ferraro was the first woman nominated for the vice presidency by a major party. This debate from philadelphia is just under an hour and a half. [applause] dorothy good evening. Good evening from the civic center in philadelphia, pennsylvania. I am the president of the league of women voters, sponsor of tonights Vice President ial debate between republican george bush and democrat geraldine ferraro. Our panelists for tonights debate are john mashek, National Correspondent for u. S. News world report, jack white, correspondent for time magazine, norma quarles, correspondent for nbc news, and robert boyd, Washington Bureau chief for knightridder newspapers. Sandra van ocher, Political Correspondent for abc news, is our moderator tonight. Sandy. Sandy thank you, dorothy. A few words about the order of the format. The order of questioning was determined by a toss of the coin. Congresswoman ferraro won the toss. She elected to speak last. Vice president bush will get the first question. The debate will be built upon a series of questions from the four reporters on the panel. A reporter will ask a candidate a question, a followup question, then the same to the other candidate, then each candidate will get to rebut the other. The debate will be divided into two parts, there will be the first section on domestic affairs, the second on Foreign Affairs. The manner of address was decided by the candidates. Therefore, it will be Vice President bush and congress ferraro. We begin with john. John john adams, one of the nations first president s, said, today i am nothing, tomorrow i may be everything. I would like to ask, Vice President bush, four years ago, you ran against mr. Reagan for the republican nomination. You disagreed with him on such issues of vague limits amendment, abortion, and you even labeled his economic policies as voodoo. Now you agree with him on every issue. If you should be called upon to assume the presidency, would you follow mr. Reagans policies down the line or would you revert to some of your own ideas . Vice pres. Bush i dont think there is a great difference between my ideas and president reagans. One of the reasons i think we are an Effective Team is that i believe firmly in his leadership. He has really turned this country around. We agree on the Economic Programs. When we came into office, inflation was 12. 5 , Interest Rates wiping out every single american, 21. 5 , if you can believe it. Productivity was down. Savings was down. There was despair. In fact, the leadership of the country told the people that there was a malaise out there. This president turned it around and i have been with him every step of the way. And, of course, i would continue those kinds of programs because it has brought america back. America is better off. People are going back to work. And why mr. Mondale cant understand that there is a new enthusiasm in this country, that america is back, there is new, strong leadership, i dont know. He has one answer to the problem, raise everybodys taxes. He looked right into that lens and said out there in san francisco, he said, im going to raise your taxes. He has had a lot of experience in that and he sure is going to had into it. I remember a statement of Lyndon Johnsons when he was looking around, why his party people werent supporting him, he said, they painted their tails white and ran with the antelope. There are lots of democratic white tails running with the antelopes. Not one democrat introduced the mondale tax bill into the congress. Of course, i support the president s Economic Program, and i support him in everything else. And i am not sure, because of my concept of the vice presidency, that if i didnt, i would go doing what mr. Mondale has done with jimmy carter, jump away from it. I couldnt do that to Ronald Reagan. Now, next year, or any other time. I have too much trust in him. I have too much friendship for him. And i would feel very uncomfortable doing that. Sandy some republicans have criticized mr. Mondale for now claiming he disagreed privately with jimmy carters decision to impose the grain embargo. Have you ever disagreed with any decision of the Reagan Administration and its inner circles, and following that up, where, in your judgment, does loyalty and principle begin . Vice pres. Bush i owe my president my judgment, then i owe him loyalty. You cant have the president of the United States out there lookingard over his shoulder, wondering whether his Vice President is going to be supporting him. Mrs. Ferraro has quite a few differences with mondale. They are different on busing. She voted to extend the grain embargo and he says he was against it. If they win, and i hope they dont, but if they win, she will have to accommodate some views, but she will give him the same kind of loyalty and giving right president reagan. One, we are not far apart on anything. Two, i can walk into that oval office anytime and give him my judgment and he might agree or he might not, but he also knows i wont be talking about it to the press or knifing him in the back by leaking to make me look good and complicate the problems of the president of the United States. Sandy congresswoman ferraro, your opponent has served in the house of representatives. He has been ambassador to the united nations, ambassador to china, director of the Central Intelligence agency and now Vice President for four years. How does your three terms in the house of representatives stack well up against experience like that . Rep. Ferraro let me first say i wasnt born at the age of 43 when i entered congress. I did have a life before that. I was a prosecutor for almost five years in the district attorneys office, and as a 20 teacher. It is not only what is on your paper resume that makes you qualified to run for or to hold office. It is how you approach problems and what your values are. I think if one has taken a look i will at my career, they will see that i level with people, that i but i approach problems would analytically, that i am that i able to assess various very facts with reference to problems, and i can make the hard decisions. I am intrigued when i hear Vice President bush talk about his support of the president s Economic Program and how everything is going beautifully. I too recall when Vice President i reachable bush was running in my the primary against president reagan and he called the program and all program voodoo economics, and it was, and it is. It we are facing absolutely we are baby massive deficits. This administration has chosen to ignore it. Were the president has failed to pregnant put forth a plan to deal with those deficits. And if he believes everything is everything believe coming up roses, perhaps the Vice President should perhaps join me as i travel around the country and speak to people around the country. People in pennsylvania are not terribly thrilled with what is happening in the economy, because they are staring into the light of a closed plant because they have lost their jobs. People in youngstown, ohio have stores that are boarded up because the economy is not doing well. Its not only the Old Industries that are failing, but also the new ones. In california, they are complaining because they cant export hightech quality goods to japan and other countries. People in the northwest, in washington and oregon, are complaining about what is happening in the timber industry, so things are not as great as the administration wants us to believe in their television commercials. My feeling, quite frankly, is that i have enough experience to see the problems, address them, and make tough decisions and level with people with reference to these problems. Sandy despite the historic aspects of your candidacy, how do you account for the fact that a majority of women, at least according to the polls, favor the reaganbush ticket over the mondaleferraro ticket . Rep. Ferraro i am not a believer in polls. Let me say further that what we are talking about our problems are that are facing the entire our nation. They are not just problems facing women. The issues in this campaign are the war and peace issues, the problems of deficits and trade problem deficits. Right we are now facing 120 billion trade deficit in this country. We are facing problems with the environment. Bar i think what will be doing the next several weeks, i am absolutely delighted that the league is sponsoring these debates and we are now able to speak to the American Public and address the issues in knowing way that this. I think you will see a change in weight those polls. Sandy Vice President bush, you have one minute to rebut. Vice pres. Bush i was glad to get that vote of confidence from mrs. Ferraro on my economic judgment. The other day, she was in a plant and she said to the workers, why are you voting, or why are so many of you voting for the reaganbush ticket . And there was a long deathly silence and she said, come on, weve delivered. Thats the problem. I am not blaming her, except for the liberal voting record in the house. They delivered. They delivered 21. 5 Interest Rates. They delivered what they called malaise. They delivered Interest Rates that were off the charts. They delivered takehome paychecks that were shrinking. And we have delivered optimism. People are going back to work, 6 million of them. And 300,000 jobs a month being created. Thats why there was but deathly silence out there in that plant. They delivered the wrong thing. Ronald reagan is delivering leadership. Ronald reagan we will sandy congresswoman ferraro, one minute rebuttal. Rep. Ferraro i think what i will have to do is start correcting the Vice President s statistics. There are 6 million more people who have jobs, which is, in the Prior Administration with all of old their problems, they created 10 million jobs. The the housing Interest Rates great during this Administration Great for housing for middleclass americans was 14. 5 . Under the Prior Administration, with all their problems, the will you average rate was 10. 6 . If you take a look at the number i will of People Living in poverty as a result of this administration, 6 Million People, 500,000 people knocked off disability rolls. Down i you can walk around saying things are great, and if that is what were going to be that hearing hearing, we have been hearing that on the commercials for the past couple of months, i expect that the expectll that they the American People believe that, i expect that i will become a onewoman squad and we will start tonight. Sandy congresswoman, i would like to ask about civil rights. You have in the past been a supporter of tuition tax credits for private parochial schools and also of constitutional amendments to ban bussing. Both of these measures are opposed not only by your running mate by just about every educational and Civil Rights Organization in the country. Now, as you are mr. Mondales running mate, have you changed your position on either of those . Rep. Ferraro with reference to the bussing vote i cast in 1979, both mr. Mondale and i agree on the same goal, and that is nondiscrimination. I just dont agree on the same direction he does on how to achieve it. But i dont find any problem with that, i think that is something that has been handled by the courts, not handled by congress and wont be handled by the white house. We both support nondiscrimination. And the integration of neighborhoods. The goals we both set forth. With reference to tax credits, i represent a district in queens which is 70 catholic. Let me say as well that i have also been a great supporter of Public School education. And that is something that fritz and i feel very, very strongly about for the future of this country. This administration, over the past several years, has gutted the Educational Programs available to our young people. It has attempted to knock out pell grants, monies to young individuals who are poor and cant afford to go to college. It has reduced by 25 the amount of monies going to College Education and i onethird, the amount of those going into secondary and primary schools. But Fritz Mondale and i feel strongly that if you educate your children, that is the way you build up and make a stronger america. With reference to civil rights, you have got to go beyond that. If you look at my record in congress, and Fritz Mondales record in the senate and as Vice President , we both have strong civil rights records. This administration does not. It has come in, in the bob jones case, on the side of segregated academies. It came in in the grove city case on the side of discrimination against women, the handicapped, and the elderly. As a matter of fact, in the congress, we just best overwhelmingly the civil rights bill of 1984. This administration, the Republicancontrolled Senate just killed it in the last week or two in congress. So there is a real difference between how the mondaleferraro administration will address the problems of civil rights and the failure of this administration specifically in that particular area. Sandy on the area of affirmativeaction, what steps do you think the government should take to increase representation of minorities and women in the workforce and colleges and universities . Specifically, would you support the use of quotas to achieve those goals . Rep. Ferraro i do not support the use of quotas. Both mr. Mondale and i feel the strongly about affirmative action to correct inequities. We believe that steps should be taken both through government and, for instance, the Small Business administration. We have supported setasides for minority and womens businesses. That is a positive thing. We dont feel that you are in any way hurting anybody else by reaching out with affirmativeaction to help those who have been disenfranchised. On the contrary, if you have a growing economy, if you create the jobs, if you allow for Small Business the opportunity with lower Interest Rates to reach out and grow, there will be more than enough space for everybody, and affirmative action is a very positive way to deal with the problem of discrimination. Vice president bush, many critics of your administration say it is the most hostile to minorities in recent memory. Have you inadvertently perhaps encouraged that view by supporting tuition tax credits, the antibussing amendment citing Bob Jones University and the case before the Supreme Court, your opposition to the Voting Rights act and so forth . Vice pres. Bush i think our record on civil rights is a good record. You mentioned the Voting Rights extension that was extended for the longest period of time by president reagan. But we have some problems in attracting the black vote. I think our record deserves better. What we have done more for black colleges than any previous and administration. We favor enterprise zones. And it has been blocked by tip oneill and that house of representatives. Those liberals in that house blocked a new idea to bring jobs one into the black communities across this country. And because it is not an old handout special federal spending program, it is blocked. A good idea. A i would like to see that pride. We have brought more civil rights cases in the Justice Department than the Previous Administration by far. We believe in trying something new to help these black teenage kids, the minimum wage differential that says look, to an employer, hire these guys. Work and yes, they are willing to work for slightly less than the minimum wage. Give them a training job in the private sector. Training private sector. We threw out that old bill that didnt train people for jobs that existed, sibley ramped them onto the government payroll. We put in the jobtraining act, new legislation that is helping blacks more and more. We think of civil rights as Something Like crime in your neighborhoods. For example, when crime figures are going in the right direction, that is good. That is a civil right. Similarly we think of it in terms of the quality of life. And that means Interest Rates. You know it is funny mr. Mondale talks about real Interest Rates. The real Interest Rate is what you pay when you get out and try to buy a tv set or try to buy a car or do whatever it is. The Interest Rates, when he left office, were 21.