Ashland. Henry clays home in lexington, kentucky, and for the next 90 minutes we will explore the life and legacy of this man, unsuccessful in his long quest for the white house, yet having an outsized influence on American History. And we are in henry clays parlor r parlor right now. Let me introduce you to jim plotter, historian. Thank you for being with us. Good to be here. Why is he relevant to americans living in our time . On a couple of accounts, his famous quote, i would rather be right than be president. Its a call to people whatever were doing, which is to do the right thing. In a sense, politicians need to remember the country and sacrifice for the country and i think that is still something that we need to remember, as well and the man known as the great compromiser, and a man that forges these compromises that not only kept the nation together, but were constructive and those are the kinds of things we need to remember about henry clay as well as the things that he did in his life, and theyre a clarion call over and over to us to say to us again and again that we can do a lot of things if we just do and try as a selfmade man did like henry clay. Well have 49 years of political history into our program tonight, but lets start with basics about his biography. Where and when was he born and how did he get to kentucky . He was burden in 1777 and seventh child and his father died very young. Clays mother remarried to a younger man, but clay liked to think of himself as a selfmade man, the mill boy working himself to the bone and coming up from the ranks from a very poor family, but in essence he came from a well to do family. They had slaves. They werent that bad off, but it was the persona that clay presented of himself. From there his family basically came to kentucky leaving him in virginia to be on his own and from there he joined them back in kentucky when he was 20 years old as a young lawyer. The easiest way to get rich is marry well and he did that and this is the estate that were in today is an example of what he did with his start and with his promise and he made himself into somebody that all americans knew. Whom did he marry . Lacretia clay. Lacretia hart clay. He married into that family and it gave him entry into the political circles that would have probably been denied him. She brought with that marriage some money and they basically had the connections because her family was linked to a lot of people and he used those connections to move forward, but he also got his foot in the door that he could open the door himself through his own skills and his own abilities. If heenry clay were through time travel, be here today, what did he look like . What did he sound like . I dont think anybody would sit down with henry clay and not leave not liking henry clay. He was not a handsome man. They said his mouth was so large he couldnt spit properly. He was a man who liked the ladies, as they said. He can kiss them on one side of his mouth while resting the other side of his mouth. As soon as he opened that mouth a good oratory came out and he could charm you and he had charisma that if it was a person of the opposite party that one time came to henry clays home and to a party that clay was doing and it was a room filled with people, a room bigger than this and he said to this man, wouldnt you like to meet the famous mr. Clay and his democrats said about the wig clay, no, sir, no, sir, i do not wish to subject myself to the spell of his fascination because he knew that henry clay would suck him into his orbit because he had the personality and the charisma and charm that anybody who would meet him would like henry clay been on one. Do you know this . Was this just a genetic gift or did he school himself to have a minuter . When did he get this from . . He heard Patrick Henry speak . Shirj shirj and he was henrys oratory and he talks about giving speeches to the cows and the field as practice and you almost had to convince the juries through the force of your words. So he developed it, but he was almost a selfmade orator, too, because over time it was something that he could turn on a minute and speak on the issues. He was impossible to challenge clay in a debate because he would get up on the spur of the moment and come up with all of the facts and figures and win the argument. John calhoun once prepared to talk for two weeks and clay got up and demolished it within instantly and thats the kind of man that clay was and had he been able to appear on television, he could have been a really effective politician. At that time, you didnt campaign for president. There was no radio, so you had that force of the oratory was less and only in congress would you have the full force of that. When weve been talking with historians and people here in ashland about him they keep telling us that he was the equivalent of a rock star in his time. Everybody in the country knew him and in a country with mass communication, how was it possible to know who henry clay was . Politics was the sports at that time. It was the game everybody followed and there were no organizers and there was no news are musical thing except in the church and things like that. The politics and the oratory, everybody wanted to follow that as closely as they could and the oratory, and the speeches were clay and webster, young boys in school and girls would write them down because they wanted to be like henry clay, but he was like a rock star. He would be followed by adoring people and hed go into towns and there was 100,000 people turning out to hear him speak at one time in dayton, ohio. He had children named if him and steam boats named for him and he was a man that people wanted to see to savor the excellence of henry clay. Politicians still talk with henry clay today and lets listen to Mitch Mcconnell referencing henry clay. Henry clay was the greatest statesman that my home state ever produced. He served the people as speaker of the Kentucky House of representatives. Speaker of the United States house of representatives and secretary of state under president John Quincy Adams and of course, as one of the greatest senators to ever walk through the capitol. He was also honored to receive his partys nomination three times, one in 1824, 1832 and 1844. The essence of legislating in the senate as a hundred viewpoints are brought together to create one law is com from myself. Henry clay became known as the great compromiser by forging the compromise that would keep his Precious Union together. Clay did not compromise in the sense of forsaking his principles and rather his skill was to bring together disparate ideas and to forge consensus among his colleagues. Thats a skill we could certainly use more of now. During the great debates we just went through this summer about the debt ceiling and there was talk about compromise and whether or not it was a lost art. Talk to us in the context of henry clay as the great compromiser and what sort of skills he brought to bear there. Clay, if he wanted something to happen would wok very hard to make it happen. He would sit down with people and he would find out what they wanted and go to the other side and see what theyd want and try to find some common ground, somewhere in the middle. It cost him because as they say about com from myselfors there is a sign in the Attorney Generals Office in the 1960s, that said blessed are peacemakers for they should catch hell from both sides and in a sense clay caught that problem from both sides and it hurt him politically. At the same time he felt he had to do this because the nation required it. The nation had been founded on compromise. The constitution is a compromise and the nation did not compromise on these issues it would tear itself apart and so clay had an urgency behind everything he did and he compromised some of his principles for the sake of the union in the 1833 compromise and he gave up his beloved tariff issues and not having cessations break off and war like Andrew Jackson. At the same time, the greater thing that he would not compromise on is the union. Everybody wants to know the key it my heart, the union is the key to my heart. That was the thing he would never compromise on. We are talking about echoes of today. The american system which is something that he promoted had major component which is you just referenced on building american infrastructure and also the big debate over the National Bank. Were still discussing how effective these things are in todays economy. What was the country like then and what was the level of debate over issues such as the tariff and the National Bank . Very philosophical issues that were issued from the start of the nation and they were still issues when henry clay came around and theyre still issues today. Do we have a strong Central Government or strong state governments and he thought the National Government should do things for the nation and the states could not accomplish these and he spoke out on that and people spoke out against him for that and it hurt him politically, as well. He felt like these roads and these canals and internal improvements would hold the country together and they would fragment into northwesteast, south. I know no south, no east, no west and to him it was one country, indivisible and these were ways to keep them together and they would protect american industry, and he didnt say a tariff had to be there all of the time and they would help to grow to be sdprotrong and to coe against britain. And the time of the United States was being formed and hard money was the only legal currency and the government paper money and some banks did and they could be weak and the money could go away and it would go with the central bank that we would have until the Federal Reserve system would have in the 21st century and it hurt him politically when he supported that and he thought all of this was necessary for the good of the nation. Well, henry clay sounds like a pretty good guy, but you said he had a lot of enemies. He was also known to have some vices. What were his vices . You talk about the age that this was in, vices became more prominent the longer he lived as long as the political scene went because in his youth he was known as the person who liked to gamble. He said it was a very good political tool. He could sit down and when he was making the peace treaty in the war of 1812 and sit across from the british and play poker with them and see how much they would like to bluff or call his bluff. He loved to gamble as a lot of people did any is he would lose huge amounts of money and went back the next night and his wife lacretia when someone chatted about her husband being a man who liked to gamble she said, i dont know, he always wins. He liked to drink as most americans did at that time and a time when water was not very safe to drink, and he preferred wine, and he never got drunk, and he enjoyed it. It was the moral side of america that thought that clay was a womanizer, blassphemer and a drinker. Those were used over and over again. There was something to some of those and it was much exaggerated and it became the stereotype of henry clay. Clay died in 1852. A 50year career spans the first half of the 19th century in america, a great many years full of the formation of the nation and also sectionalism and the fights over slavery. We have so much to talk about and during this program we will be opening up our phone lines for your participation. Ill give you the phone numbers now if you want to get in the cue. It will be a little bit of time before we get to calls and if youre interested to be in line, 001 if you live in the eastern or central time zones. If you live in the pacific, 737002 and we welcome your question, comments and input into this period of political history, it makes the discussion much richer. We want to get to kentuckys junior senator rand paul about henry clay. Henry clays life is at best a mixed message. His compromises were over slavery. One could argue that he rose above sectional strive fe to preserve the unone and one could argue he was wrong and that his decisions on slavery to extend slavery were decisions that ultimately invited the war that came, that his compromises meant that during the 50 years of his legislative career he not only accepted slavery, but he accepted the slave trade. In the name of compromise, henry clay was by most accounts not a cruel master, but a master nonetheless of 48 slaves most of which they did not free during his lifetime and some of which he only freed belatedly 28 years after his death. He supported the fugitive slave law throughout his career. He compromised on the extension of slavery. When he was the speaker of the house, was there a vote on extending slavery and the vote was 8888. He came down extraordinarily from the speakers chair to vote in favor of extending slavery into arkansas. Before we eulogize henry clay, we should acknowledge and appreciate the contrast with contemporaries who refuse to compromise. William lloyd garrison toiled at a small abolitionist press for 30 years refusing to compromise with clay, with clays desire to send the slaves back to africa. Garrison was beaten, chased by mobs and imprisoned for his principled stand. Frederick douglas traveled the country at the time. He was a free black man, but he traveled at great personal risk throughout the countryside and he proved ultimately that he was the living, breathing example that intellect and leadership could come from a recently freed slave. And we are back and with another guest that i would like to introduce. Alistair turley is professor of louisville and welcome to our discussion of henry clay. Before we get into the area which you have spent your scholarship for henry clay. Talk to me about your impressions about henry clay and what are your views of this man . I think the image of him as a rock star and popular candidate for a political figure is very impressive. Hes a lightning rod and gets people fired up either for or against them. He has the ability to inspire and even on the abolitionist issues he takes more heat than people, senators who were actually more john c. , cal hoon, for instance. Clay is probably more talked about, written upon than some of the prominent political figures. We havent explained what it was, and explain to us he was a gefrnt the idea of slifry. For his time period he would have been described as extremely liberal and an emancipationist, and he didnt think africanamericans could survive in america as citizens. So the whole idea of the American Colonization Society and freedom outside of the United States sort of became his platform, that he really stuck to through the his presidency, although he never im sorry. Im making him president , throughout his political career he never did deny the fact that he felt africanamericans should have their freedom. He just was not willing to risk he knew the political damage, antislavery, and what he did . He was a slave holder. And that caused him great grief all his life because in the north hed be criticized as a slave holder and in the south he hed be criticized for his antislavery views. Had he taken one side or the other, he got elected with the northern votes and had clay done that and had he freed the slaves 2 would have med him a pol pigz tigz. The yet was forth it despite the criticisms and you what the member of states, askee was recording, and he still holds slaves and emancipates some. The most famous, charlotte who is his servant in washington who doesnt want to return to kentucky when he wants to come back and who stays and he literally she takes him to court and loses. He also gets credit for freeing charles and some of the other slaves here on the estate. He buys slave, too. He spends time at the market here in lexington purchasing slaves and is known for the quality of slaves that he purchases and again, hes one of those people thats dual nature. On the one of those things that people used to talk about slavery in kentucky and it didnt really matter. It was still slavery and an abolitionist came to kentucky and said slavery said it is the mildest and it causes very heart to sticken. Someone heard the scream from the death knell of liberty, ask much, i want sment are spin more time on the, and Andrew Jackson, his nemesis, Daniel Webster, james monroe, jansis scott key when wrote the starspangled banner, how key was the american colonization in the country . It was extremely popular and clay is considered one of the major if not the founder and he gets federal funding for it to buy the land and library for the resettlement. He promotes the idea of resettling africanamericans in haiti and canada. He he is known for this. This is what he becomes lightning rod in the Free Black Community in the north and this is what causes them to unite against henry clay in the sense that why should we have to leave the United States . Its popular in the White Community and not popular in the south. The library was a death trap. Yes. And the people in america that had been slaves or were slaves, their fore fathers were here and they were more american in a sense, why should we leave home . No connections to africa whatsoever and the fact that clay was trying to remove primarily free blacks. The Colonization Society represented the removal of free blacks and not slaves. That was another controversial part. I want to introduce a third person to our discussion any interprets the life of henry clay and we have a special guest, avery malown who shares the director of tour operations and before you take our viewers, lets get a sense of the place, abbe is wig in the rink about a mile and a half from downtown and new circle road and we are in a beautiful residential area of lexington. How many acres does the house have today and how many did henry clay have at his zenith . Today we sit on 17 acres here at ashland and we have the contract for the first 125 acres that henry clay purchased. At its height the farm was 670 acres. And we should learn a little bitmore abo bit more about his family before we go on tour here. He and his wife had how many children and did they all live here . They had 11 children. However, they did not all live here at the same time. There was a lot of tragedy in the family. All six of henry and lucretias daughters would die. Only two made it into early adulthood and one of the sons died as well during henry and lucretias