And now the contenders. Our series on key political figures who ran for president and lost, but who nevertheless changed political history. Tonight we feature former House Speaker henry clay of kentucky, known as the great compromiser. The program was recorded at clays ashland estate in lexington, kentucky, its about 90 minutes. This is an encore presentation of cspans original 14week series which first aired in 2011. This is a portrait of kentuckys henry clay, known to us in our history books as the great compromiser. During his 49year political career clay served as secretary of state, speaker of the house and as a u. S. Senator and he was a contender, making five president ial bids, including the election of 1824, 1832 against Andrew Jackson, and 1844 when he ran against james k. Polk. Tonight we are on location at ashland, henry clays home in lexington, kentucky and for the next 90 minutes we will explore the life and legacy of this man. Unsuccessful in his long quest for the white house, yet having an outsized influence on American History. And we are in henry clays parlor right now. Let me introduce you to jim clotter. 25 years now as kentucky state historian. Thanks for being with us. Glad to be here. Why is henry clay relevant to americans living in our time . I think a couple accounts. First of all his famous comment, i would rather be right than be president still speaks to us, its a call to people across whatever were going, in politics or anywhere else, to do the right thing. He also said in a sense that politicians need to remember their country and sacrifice for the country. I think that is still something that we need to remember as well. And, of course, the man known as the great compromiser, a man that forged these compromises that not only kept the nation together but were constructive and those kind of things are the kinds of things we need to remember about henry clay as well as all the things he did in his life. They, again, are a clarion call over and over to us to say to us again and again that we can do a lot of things as we do and try as a selfmade man clay did. Were going to try to fit 49 years of rich political history during a very complex and interesting time of American History into our program tonight. Lets start with basics about his biography, where and when was he born and how did he get to kentucky . He was born in 1777 and seventh child. And his father died very young. Clays mother remarried to a younger man but clay liked to think of himself as a selfmade man. The mill boy, carrying the born to the mill and working himself to the bone, coming up from the ranks from a very poor family but in essence he came from a very well to do family, they had slaves, not that bad off. It was the persona clay presented to us of himself. From there he went his family came to kentucky, leaving him in virginia when he was 14 years old to be on his own, and from there then he finally joined back in kentucky, when he was 28 years old, as a young lawyer, married well, the easiest way to get rich is to marry well and he did that and this estate were in today is an example of what he did with his start and with his promise. And he made himself into somebody that all americans knew. Whom did he marry . Lucretia hart clay, an early family in clay. Married into that family, and gave him entry into the political circles that would have probably denied him. He also she brought with that marriage some money. And they basically had the connections because her family was known to a lot of people and he used those connections to move forward. Once he got his foot in the door, he could open the door himself through his own skills and his own abilities. If henry clay were standing here today through time travel. What would we see . What did he look like or sound like . I dont think anybody would sit down with him and not leave without liking him. He was a man not handsome, everybody says he was ugly. They always commented about his large mouth. It was so large he couldnt spit properly and he was a man who liked the ladies, as i said, and they somebody at the time said he could kiss out of the other side of his mouth while resting the other side. That was a kind of as soon as he opened that mouth a great oratory came out and he could charm you. He had that charisma, that if there was a person of the opposite party that at one time came to henry clays home and to a party that clay was doing, there was a room filled with people, a room bigger than this and the man said to this man from the other party, he said wouldnt you like to meet the famous mr. Clay . And this democrat said about the wig clay, no, sir, no, sir, i do not choose to subject myself to the spell of his fascination. He knew that henry clay would suck him into his orbit if he just henry clay. He had that charisma and charm that anybody who would meet him would like him. Do you know was this just a genetic gift or did he school himself to be an orator, did he have a mentor . He worked at it. He heard Patrick Henry speak in virginia and he was just amazed by the force of henrys oratory and he wanted to be like that. He worked at it. He talks about giving speeches to the cows in the field as practice. He came to kentucky as a lawyer, he almost had to convince your juries through this force of your words, not necessarily through the law itself in frontier state like that. He developed it and it was almost a selfmade orator too because over time it was something he could turn on a minute, and speak on the issues. He was impossible to challenge clay in a debate, he would get up on the spur of the moment, and come up with all the facts and all the figures and win the argument. John c. Calhoun once prepared a talk for two weeks, and clay got up and demolished it instantly. And thats the kind of man that clay was. And had he been able to appear on television he could have really been a very effective politician and of course at that time you didnt campaign for president , there was no radio. So you had to that force of the oratory was less than congress when you had the full force. When weve been talking with historians, they keep telling us he was the equivalent of a rock star in his time. Everybody in the country knew him. Now, in a country without mass communication, how was it possible for everybody to know who henry clay was . Everybody politics was the sports of that time. It was the game that everybody followed. There werent organized sports as we know it, things like that, there wasnt any musical things except in the church, so the politics and the oratory, everybody wanted to follow that as closely as they could and the oratory, the speeches of clay or webster, young boys in school, girls would write these down and would practice them over and over again because they wanted to be like henry clay. But he was like a rock star. I mean, he would be followed by adoring people. He would go into towns and theres an example of 100,000 people turning out to hear him speak at one time in dayton, ohio. He had children named for him. He had steam boats named for him. He had everything named for him. He was a man that people wanted to see, just to savor the excellence of henry clay. Well, politicians still talk about henry clay today, lets listen in to kentuckys senior senator Mitch Mcconnell referencing henry clay. Henry clay was the greatest statesman that my home state ever produced. He served the people as speaker of the Kentucky House of representatives, speaker of the United States house of representatives, secretary of state under president John Quincy Adams, and of course as one of the greatest senators to ever walk through the capitol. He was also honored to receive his partys nomination for president three times in 19 1824, 1832 and 1844. The essence of legislating in the senate, a a hundred vooupt viewpoints are brought together to complete law is compromise. He became known as the great compromiser by forging the compromise that would keep this Precious Union together. Clay did not compromise in the sense of forsaking his principles. Rather his skill was to bring together disparate ideas and forge consensus among his colleagues. Thats a skill we could certainly use more of now. During the great debates we just went through this summer over the debt ceiling and the budget there was so much talk about compromise in washington, whether or not its a lost art. Talk to us a little bit in that context, about henry clay as the great compromiser, and what sort of skills he brought to bear there. Clay, if he wanted something to happen, would work very hard to make it happen. He would sit down with people. He would find out what they wanted. He would go to the other side and see what they would want. He tried to find some common ground, somewhere in the middle. Theres a it cost him, though, because as they say about compromisers, theres a sign in the Attorney Generals Office in the 1960s that said blessed are the peacemakers, they shall catch hell from both sides. In a sense clay caught that problem from both sides. And it hurt him politically. But at the same time he felt he had to do this because the nation required it. The nation had been founded on compromise. The constitution is a compromise. And the nation did not compromise on these issues, it would tear itself apart. And so clay had an urgency behind everything he did, and he actually compromised some of his principles for the sake of the union in the 1833 compromise. He gave up his beloved tariff issues for the sake of keeping the union together and not having secessionists break off and fight at war against Andrew Jackson. But at the same time the greater thing that he would not compromise on was the union. He said at one time if anybody wants to know the key to my heart, the union is the key to my heart. That was the thing he would never compromise on. When we were talking about echoes of today and the american system, which is something he promoted, had major components, which include tariffs, you just referenced, spending the money from the tariffs on building american infrastructure, and then also the big debate over a National Bank. Were still discussing, how effective these things are in todays economy. What were the what was the country like then and what was the level of debate over issues such as the tariff and the National Bank . Very philosophical issues from the very start of the nation. They were still issues when henry clay came around and still issues today. We have a strong Central Government or do we have a strong state government. These are the issues that clay spoke on. He thought the National Government should do things for the nation. And that the states could not accomplish these and he spoke out about that. It hurt him in a lot of pays politically as well. He felt like these roads and canals and internal improvements were necessary to tie the country together. Otherwise it would fragment into the east, west, north, south, his comment at one time was i know no north, no south, no east, no west. To him it was one country indy visible and these would be ways to keep it together. A tariff would allow it to grow. He didnt say a tariff would have to be there all the time. So it could compete against britain and other groups like that and then a bank of the United States at the time of the United States was being formed, hard money was the only legal currency, the government didnt print paper money. Some banks did, but they could be weak banks and the money would go away. So clay wanted to make central bank that would really, we wouldnt have until the Federal Reserve system was set up in the 20th century and that bank of the United States became controversial as well and hurt him politically when he supported that. He thought it was all necessary for the good of the nation. Well, henry sounds like henry clay sounds like a pretty good guy. But you said he had a lot of enemies. He also was known to have some vices. What were his vices . You talked about the age that this was in. Those vices became more prominent the longer he lived, as far as the political scene went because in his youth he was known as a person who liked to gamble. He said it was a very good political tool. He could sit down when he was making the peace treaty with the british in the war of 1812 and sit across from the british and play poker with them and see how much they would like to bluff or how much they would call his whether you ha bluff. He would lose huge amounts of money one night and win them back the next night. His wife, lucretia, when somebody chatted about her husband who liked to gamble so much she said, i dont know, he usually wins. He did win a lot. But he liked the spirit of the gamble. But as he got older he didnt do that as muff. He liked to drink as most americans did at that time, when preferred was not safe to drink. He preferred wine but never got drunk but enjoyed it. All those things were used against him by the moral side of america that thought that clay was a womanizer, a blasphemer, a duellist, and a drinker. And so those things would be used against him over and over again, really at different times in his life. There was something to some of those. But it was much exaggerated. It became part of the stereotype of henry clay. Clay dayed in 1852. So the 50year career were talking about spans the first half of the 19th century in america, a great year of many years full of the formation of the nation and also sectionalism and the fights over slavery. We have so much to talk about and during this program we will be opening up our phone lines for your participation. Going to give you the phone numbers now if you want to get in the cue. It will be a little bit of time before we get to calls. If youre interested and anxious to do so, get this line. 20 0001. If you live in the mountain or pacific time zone, 2027370002. And we welcome your questions, your questions, your comments, your input into American History. It makes the discussion much richer. We want to listen to the views of kentuckys junior senator, rand paul, about henry clay. Henry clays life is at best a mixed message. His compromises were over slavery. One could argue that he rose above sectional strife to keep the union together, to preserve the union. But one could also argue that he was morally wrong and that his decisions on slavery, to extend slavery, were decisions that may have ultimately invited the war that came. That his compromises meant that during the 50 years of his legislative career, he not only accepted slavery, but he accepted the slave trade. In the name of compromise, henry clay was, by most accounts, not a cruel master, but he was a master, nonetheless, of 48 slaves. Most of which they did not free during his lifetime and some of which he only freed belatedly 28 years after his death. He supported the fugitive slaf law throughout his career. He compromised on the extension of slavery. When he was the speaker of the house, there was a vote on extending slavery into arkansas and the vote was 8888. He came down extraordinarily from the speakers chair to vote in favor of extending slavery into arkansas. Before we eulogize henry clay we should acknowledge and appreciate the contrast with contemporaries who refused to compromise. William lloyd garrison toiled at a small appear ligsist press for 30 years, refusing to compromise with clay with clays desire to send the slaves back to africa. Garrison was beaten, chased by mobs and imprisoned for his principled stand. Frederick douglass traveled the country at the time. He was a free black man, but he traveled at great personal risk throughout the countryside, and he proved ultimately that he was the living, breathing example that intellect and leadership could come from a recently freed slave. And we are back. And we are with another guest that id like to introduce. Alicestyne turley is a history professor at the university of louisville. Welcome to our discussion of henry clay. Before we get into the area which you have spent a lot of your scholarship, which is slavery and that time period and henry clay, talk to me in the general sense about your impressions of henry clay and his legacy. What are your views of this man . I think the image of him as a rock star and popular candidate, political figure, is very impressive. Hes a lightning rod. He seems to be able to get people fired up either for or against him. He has the ability to inspire, and even on the abolitionist issues, he takes more heat than people senators who are actually more a john c. C calhoun, for instance. Clay is talked about, more written about, focused upon than some of the more prominent political figures. We spent some time talking about his basics and havent really delved into his position about slavery. Explain to us what his philosophical and political positions were about slavery . Philosophically he was against the idea of slavery. For his time period he would have been considered extremely liberal. For a long time he was touted as a abolitionist, emancipationist. He did not believe in slavery but he also didnt think africanamericans could survive in america as citizens. So the whole idea of the american Colonization Society, freedom outside the United States, sort of became his platform that he really stuck to throughout his presidency. Although he never im sorry, im making him president. Throughout his political career, he never did deny the fact that he felt africanamericans should have their freedom. He just was not willing to risk he knew the political damage antislavery could do to his career and the country. He was a slaveholder . He was a slaveryholder and that caused him great grief all his life, because in the north he would be criticized as a slaveholder and in the south he would be criticized for his antisleighry views. Had he taken one side or the other, he might have been much better off as a politician, as Abraham Lincoln did in the north, got elected president with all the northern votes but no southern votes. Had clay done that, had he freed his slaves, that may have helped him as a politician. And the fact that he wasnt willing to do it and the fact that he was stuck to his emancipation ideas despite the criticism. That says a lot. What do we know about the number of slaves he held here at ashland and how he treated them . He is recorded at the height of having 35. When he dies i think hes Still Holding slaves. He emancipates some. The most famous case is charlotte, his servant in washington, who doesnt want to return to kentucky when he wants to come back, and who stays. I literally she takes him to court and loses. He also gets credit for freeing charles and some of the other slaves here on the estate. But in the long hes a slave he buys slaves, too. He spends time at the market here in lexington, purchasing slaves, and is known for the quality of slaves that he purchases. So, again, hes one of those people thats dual nature. Its one of those things people used to talk about slavery in kentucky being the mildist but it didnt matter it was still slavery. An abolitionist came to kentucky and said slavery is the mildist but its enough to cause the very heart to sicken. Thats what slavery was. As somebody said they heard the lash on the back and heard the screams of the slave and that was the death nail of liberty. That was a part of clay he can never quite see or pick up on as much as the other parts of his life. I want to spend a minute more on this american Colonization Society. I read that at its first meeting some pretty famous american names around the Table Including Andrew Jackson, his nemesis, Francis Scott key, who wrote the star spangled banner. How popular was the american Colonization Movement in this country . It was extremely popular. Clay is considered one of the major if not the founder. He gets federal funding to buy the land for the resettlement. He he promotes the idea of resettling africanamericans in haiti, in canada. He he is known for this. He becomes lightning rod in the Free Black Community in the north because this is what causes them to unite against henry clay in the sense that, why should we have to leave the United States . Its popular in the slave in the white community, not popular in the south. The library was a death trap. Yes. And people in america that have been slaves or were slaves, their forefathers had been here longer than a lot of the white people their owners. Immigrants, right. So, why should we leave our home . No connections to africa whatsoever. And the fact that clay was trying to remove primarily free black, the Colonization Society represented removal of free blacks from the country, not slaves. That was another controversial part. Im going to introduce a third person to our discussion. Ashland is open for tours and interprets the life of henry clay. We have a special guest, avery malone, who is with us tonight. She is the director of tour operations here. And, avery, before you take our viewers on a tour of the first part, lets get a little sense of place. Ashland today is in what part of lexington . We are within the ring called new circle road. Were about a mile and a half from downtown and about a mile and a half from new circle road. So, were on the southeast edge of town in a beautiful residential area of lexington. How many acres does the house have today and how many did henry clay have at his zenith . Today we sit on about 17 acres here at ashland. And we have the contract for the first 125 acres that henry clay purchased. But at its height, the farm was about 670 acres. And we should learn a little more about his family before we go on tour here as well. He and his wife had how many children all together . And did they all live here . They had 11 children. However, they did not all live here at the same time. There was a lot of tragedy in the family. All six of henrys daughters would die. Only two made it into early adulthood. One of the sons died as well, so there was a fair bit of tragedy here. The house interprets henry clay at what period of his life . The house would interpret henry clay throughout his lifetime. We mention when he was born and show a picture of his birthplace. And go until his death in 1852. So, we talk about the span of his life. We talk about his family and his political career as well as his farming and legal career. Well, what were going to see now is what visitors to ashland would see as they tour the first floor of the estate, so take us on a bit of a tour, if you would. Were in the foyer right now. This is where the clay family would have welcomed their guests. The clay family established a long legacy of welcoming guests here at ashland. We have next the drawing room where the family entertained their guests. This is where were filming tonight. Many of the clays important guests would have come to this room. It was the most formal room in the house. We also have the dining room where you can see his wifes ice cream set set on the table. The orange and white China Service was given to her by her sister and it was a gift purchased in france and she was particularly known for her strawberry ice cream. I would like to take you next into the study. In the original house this room was used by henry clay like a home office for his three careers. Henry was a farmer, a lawyer and a statesman. I would like to drew attention to henry clays portfolio and document box. Currently we have the portfolio on loan to us from the supreme court. Henry clay would have used these items when he went to washington, d. C. We also have a pair of stirrups that say h. Clay. And as a farmer, henry clay believed in breeding the best to the best. And because of this philosophy, 11 Kentucky Derby winners can draw their blood lines back here to ashland. Next we have the library. Henry clay began his legal career in 1897. We have his law license on the wall. It was issued in virginia. Henry clay would turn to his legal career throughout his life as a source of revenue or income. And his legal career and his great oratory really helped define who he was. We will be back with you throughout the program. Youll be available to answer some of our viewer questions and youll also take us on a tour of other places in the home, avery malone. Thank you very much for this view of ashland in henry clays period. Who are some of the famous people he may have hosted here . Several president s came here. William Henry Harrison met with clay here. Martin van buren came here two years before they thought they would be running against each other and four, five days. Its a question, really, did they talk about trying to make the texas issue go away because they both issued letters later on that said they oppose the annexation of texas, which became a fierce issue in that campaign. Did they meet in rooms like this and talk over that . We dont know. Basically a lot of famous people including lafayette and others have been through this area. And all those people wanted to see henry clay. All the foreign visitors who came to america and on the mountains wanted to come to lexington, the athens of the west, the Cultural Center of the west because it was also the Political Center of the west with clay hk here. Well mix in our first phone call with brian from springfield, illinois. Welcome to our conversation about henry clay. Good evening. I want to thank cspan for this series. Its a great idea. Im calling from springfield, illinois, with a nonlincoln themed question. I wanted to ask the panel about 1824 and the corrupt bargain charge against henry clay when he when he backed John Quincy Adams against jackson and accepted the secretary of state position. Do you think thats the reason why were referring to henry clay as contender instead of president . The 1824 election. That was used against henry clay the rest of his life. It was one of his Major Political mistakes. There were four people in that race. The constitution says the top three vote getters, if theres not a majority, will go to the house of representatives where each state will have one vote. Henry clay ended up number four on that list. He probably should have been on that list. If he would have gotten in as speak her of of the house he could have used his vast popularity to win the presidency by his oneonone campaigning but he didnt. So he became the president maker and not the president. Before he left kentucky, before he left ashland, he said he favored John Quincey Adams for the president. Adams had the same viewpoints. Jackson he called a mere general. Clay always feared the napoleons of the world. He feared america would elect these generals and they would use some pretext to take over and be a dictator like napoleon did during his lifetime. So clay went to washington knowing he was going to support adams. His mistake was not supporting adams. That might have been his best compromise, getting enough states to vote adams for president. Adams didnt carry but nine states and 13 was needed. Clay did that and adams was elected. Clay made the big mistake, accepting the offer of the secretary of state from John Quincey Adams. That was the stepping stone to the presidency. Half of his people said he should do it, half of his advisers said he shouldnt. But he couldnt turn it down. That was then used against him as a corrupt bargain. Andrew jackson was his great nemesis. What was jacksons position on slavery . Much more hostile than probably one of the first president s. He marched into florida mainly to clear out what he considered a threat from florida. Hes one of his major campaigns into florida was the issue of freed blacks with british support living in florida, along with native americans who were raiding into american territories, taking slaves out of the United States. So, hes very hostile toward any idea of freedom and much more so than our president s. Next telephone call is from scott, whos watching us in boston. Hello, scott. Hi, how are you . Great, thanks. You have a henry clay question for us . I do. I went to high school in eastport, maine, on moose island, a cool, foggy, dreary island, very close to canada. We all knew in eastport that henry clay had insisted after the war of 1812, the island had been taken by the british. He had insisted when he negotiated the end of the treaty of the island be returned to the United States, even when John Quincy Adams, who was another negotiator, was willing to sort of let the let canada have let british have the island. Im wondering any historians would know why he was so adamant on the return of moose island in eastport to america . I dont know if you know the specifics of im not an expert on moose island and why clay i did know clay when making the treaty in the war of 1812, he took the strongest position of all the american delegates. He wanted america to have a strong position. Adams was afraid they wouldnt get a treaty if they took such position, so clay tended to get everything he could. Im not sure on moose island, though. I hope theres another historian that could tell us. We talked before we got started life about clays antagony toward the british. He felt, of course, the british were still trying to hold on, punish america with the war of 1812. He definitely wanted a war with england. He felt america, despite the fact we had a very small army, small navy, could still beat england. I dont know if that was the source of pride or ego or what that was with clay. But i often wondered if it had something to do with the british asking africanamericans to fight against americans during the war of 1812. If that could have been a part of it. Theres also, when he was a young man and apparently his fathers grave had just been dug, supposedly some british soldiers came into the household and they were treeg to raid the household and they actually thrust their swords into the freshly dug grave thinking there might be goods that were hidden there. So he had an antipathy toward the british very early. He said kentucky alone can capture canada when the war of 1812 started. He was wrong, among other things. When he got to britain after the peace treaty had been signed, he stayed over there several months and met all the british important people and he came back with a different view of the british. He still feared them and thought they would try to bully america but he now became known as prince howell because he got a little royalty and felt off on him. Lets talk about the 1832 election. We were talking about Andrew Jackson, 1832 when he faced off against him for the presidency. In 1832, it was probably one of those elections that clay couldnt win. Jackson was popular still. The things that make historians upset with Andrew Jackson, like his indian policy, his policy towards africanamericans and groups like that, those were positives for Andrew Jackson in his era. And in the south particularly. And in 1832, clay also faced the fact there was a third party out there that would end up taking a sizeable percentage of the vote, probably mostly from the whig party, or the party that would become the whigs and that was the Antimasonic Party. The whole issue of masonry, which we still hear today with movies and things like that about it, the Antimasonic Party thought the masons should be done away with. Clay was a mason . And jackson was a mason. This third party took votes away from him so he probably would have had a harder time winning anyway. Jackson was popular. Then the bank issue came up where clays recharter of the National Bank of america, jackson vetoed it, and clay thought it would be a popular issue. People would go to him and say, this is the right thing to do. But he didnt realize jacksons veto message was a great political message because it made Andrew Jackson speak for the people and against this corporate monopoly, this bank. Clay couldnt win on that issue. So clay lost on several levels there. How close was the election . Clay got 49 electoral votes. Cspan has a website set up for this series and we have lots more detail. We have other video you wont see during our live production and details about their losing president ial elections and the outcomes. Cspan. Org thecontenders if youre wanting to learn more history along the way with us here. Lets return to avery malone, the tour Operations Director at ashland, now on the second floor. Ave avery, what do you have for us . Were in the henry clay bedroom right now. You can see the bed behind me. This is henry clays 1830s bed. We even have a letter where he talks about how comfortable this bed was and it didnt even have bedbugs. Upstairs we have henry clays dueling pistols purchased in 1799 and later altered a bit. We believe these went to war with his son in mexico. Henry was in two duals. The duel with John Randolph actually takes us back to henry clay as speaker of the house. When henry was chosen as speaker of the house, he was chosen partly because they thought, heres a man who can meet John Randolph on the floor or on the field. It happened that they met on the field. John randolph compared henry clay to a character in the novel tom jones and basically called him a card cheat on the senate floor. Henry wasnt there to defend himself and felt no man should have to endure such a dishonor so he challenged John Randolph to a duel. Unfortunately for henry clay, randolph was really a great shot with pistols and clay was not. But randolph decided that he didnt want to deprive lucretia or the nation of henry clay and decided to shoot at the ground. Fortunately, nobody was seriously injured in either of henry clays duels. How long did dueling was it part of american political life . Duels in kentucky in the 1860s. 1860s . Yeah, the last ones. Henry clay knew he wasnt a great shot, so why did he get involved in this . It was honor, the whole issue clay had a whole sense of honor. If your honor was attacked, you had to defend it. Sometimes he would defend it through newspaper stories and letters. Sometimes it got so bad he felt the only way to challenge, and if they answered the challenge, he twice went to the dueling grounds. That would be used against him as well. And randolph this is senator John Randolph of roanoke, right . Yes. A man who was very eccentric. Had one of the great quotes about henry clay. May have been applied to other people, too, but he said that henry clay is like a rotten mack ral in the moonlight. He both shines and stinks. And thats a great vision there that clay both shines and stinks. And randolph, you know, disliked clay for a lot of the things he did, but he admired clay because clay had the ability to do things. And even in the last part of his life, randolph is a dying man, wanted to come to the floor of the senate, so he said he could listen to this magnificent voice one more time. Our next telephone call is from david, san francisco. David, welcome. Thank you. One quick comment, that is, anybody who thinks that todays politics is overly divided should really take a look at the political verbiage in the jack seas jacksonian area. This question is for particularly dr. Klotter. Do you find it ironic the republican party, which evolved from the whig party, has evolved from a party founded by henry clay on the basis of public works and federal investment in local projects into one that opposes all that, and particularly with Mitch Mcconnells comments . Thank you. Yes. Hi, david. Basically, you know, the whig party evolved into the republican party, Abraham Lincoln himself had been a whig and became a republican. And had many of the aspects of the whig party, but in modern da days parties have aspects both of those. The Democratic Party has a lot of the central factions of the whig party. Some of the republican business oriented sections come from the whig fill offcy. In a sense henry clay lives on in both parties. Probably doesnt live on enough in both parties. Comments on that question . You mentioned 1830s. You have the rise of the antislavery new England Antislavery Society who becomes a thorn. He does develop some democratic ideals. He definitely supports is against the idea of a gag rule in congress, which many of the southerners and northerners want for the sake of freedom, he definitely overrules that idea. He wants these petitions, even though he doesnt support it, he wants it heard. Before we get too far into the 1830s, we really havent spent time on one of the first of the three great compromises that hes known for. And thats the missouri compromise. Will you talk about the Politics Around that . The missouri wanted to come into the union as a what time frame are we talking . 1820. Missouri wants to come into the union. The question is, will it be a slave state or not . Maine is about to enter at the same time so it ends up at the two come in, one is slave, one is free. That wasnt necessarily going to be decided at the beginning. The whole question of slavery is like a fair bell in the night as Thomas Jefferson said, when the slavery question arises, its always been there, its always smoldering like a fire and now the missouri compromise feeds that fire and brings it to the forefront and theres debates and debates. Where will slavery will it continue . Will it go on . Will it be everywhere in the nation . Will it be somewhere in the nation but limited . Theres attempts to limit it completely. Clay is not the man who makes the first xhomp myself, the first missouri compromise. A lot of the ideas were here but it came from other people. He works to get it through but its not really his compromise. But then once its through, everything seems like its done, missouri passes a law in part of the constitution that says freed blacks will not be able to go into missouri. The United States constitution says american citizens can go anywhere. This is the compromise clay because Everything Else was getting ready to fall apart. Clay works out a very convoluted answer to that that satisfies everybody and satisfies nobody at the same time it ends the crisis. He hopes slavery will not be an issue because, to clay, slavery is the real thorn in his side. He can never come up with a solution on that. And if its if its if its a wound, its a selfinflicted wound because clay was a slaveholder. Right. That makes it difficult to please he starts out people believing that hes an emancipationist and hes on the norths side. And then over time, hes hated by both the north and south. Its a nowin situation for him. We are halfway through our 90minute discussion on the life and times of the contender, henry clay, who ran for the white house throughout most of his political career. Five times in total. Three times as his partys nominee and unsuccessful all the while. But with a great affect on the direction and future of his country. Were going to take a very short break and then be back at ashland, his home in lexington, kentucky, to talk more. Welcome back to ashland, the home of henry clay in lexington, kentucky. A place that has been preserved and is open for tours. The people who spend their professional livesle helping to curate this place hope you will be inspired to come down and visit them after our 90minute discussion tonight about henry clay. Let me reintroduce you to our guests. Alicestyne turley is a professor of history in the state of kentucky, georgetown. Tell us about your college, will you, please . Yes. Im a professor at the department of panafrican studies, louisville. One of ten panafrican departments in the country. You were colleagues at georgetown . We were colleagues at Georgetown College and thats where i teach history now. Where is georgetown, kentucky . About 12 miles north, in the next county. When you were in college, did you debate a lot . We did. We did. But its hard to debate someone like jim klotter. He definitely is a scholar on kentucky history. I just try to keep up. 20 years as kentucky state historian. What does the job entail . Its a selfdefined job but to me it involves writing the history as a state. And ive tried to do that. And it involves working with people who are writing about kentuckys history and helping them, aiding them, offering advice, suggestions, trying to stay out of their way sometimes. And it also entails going around and giving talks and appearing in things leak th s like this io tell the story of the state and the people who lived here. Avery malone is with us, the director of tour operations here at ashland. Avery, would you tell us about how many people come to this place every year, how its financed and how its operated. Well, it varies by season how many people youll find visiting ashland. Certainly the tourists come when the leaves change and keenland is in full swing and in christmas and throughout the summer. We have somewhere around 15,000 a year come to see us. We are financed through a variety of methods and means. And were very fortunate to have all of our visitors and all of the friends and of ashlands who donate to keep us open and for us to tell the public about henry clay and compromise. What year did the place open for tours originally . We opened in 1950 for tours. This was only two years after nanette bullock died. She was henrys great granddaughter. She started the henry clay memorial foundation. So, just two years after she passed away. Her son lived here until 1959, so we were only open downstairs. Then after he moved out, we opened throughout the house. All three of our guests available for your questions. Lets take another one. This is from shelby watching us in sacramento, california. Yes, hello. Im also a great grandson of a mr. Lauer, who helped with the antislavery movement. Before i get to my main question, i would like to say that he had a hardware store. And when slaves would come to the town and they needed to be housed, his secret and magical phrase to his we have some two penny nails in. And my grandmother, myrtle lauer james knew there was some kind of magical significance to that. So, when she had a horse was given a horse as a young lady, she named the horse two penny nails. So, perhaps we can remember all those slaves that were able to find freedom and what a great country this is and what a terrific thing to have cspan. Im grateful to participate in this series. We appreciate it. We do need your question because we have a lot of callers in line. Yes sh, yes. I saw masonry emblems on the bls in the beautiful city of louisville, kentucky. My question is, can you tell us what Association Henry clay may have had with that city. Thank you. With the city of louisville. Well, clays son, henry clay jr. , lived in louisville and in lexington. And clay jr. Used some of his wifes money again to basically buy a lot of property when louisville was on the rise. So, he became quite wealthy as a young man. That son ended up being killed in the mexican war, killed by mexican lances. But clay would visit there and help his son and it was a rival of lexington, though, because louisville clips lexington in population in 1830 for the first time. The river boats there made louisville on the artery of communication and transportation and lexington was kind of in the backwater because its not on a water system. So his connection with louisville was a mixed one, but it generally supported the whig side. Next phone call is from willie. Willie is in columbus, ohio. Willie, youre on. Thank you. Id like to know real quickly, any connection, any association, ive always been under the impression, former heavyweight champi champion clay said that was his slave name. Certainly the name stands out for americans because he was considered an abolitionist and antislavery in lexington. Ran an antislavery newspaper. Its my understanding, and maybe jim knows better than i, but i dont think there was a real Family Connection with cause yus marsle clay. I did some research, and the man known as mohammuhammad ali named for the abolitionist leader, but his family that he came from was from western kentucky. They just took that name because the distant cousin of henry clay, was an abolitionist, or antislavery man, certainly. The election of 1840 henry clay tries one again for his whigs party nomination. He was defeated in that quest by who . William Henry Harrison. Harrison turned around and offered clay the Vice President ial spot . Is that right . Im not sure if he offered him vice presidency but he offered him his choice of cabinet. I thought that was his way to get close with the way fate played with the harrison presidency. That would have been ironic. Why did he offer him his choice of cabinet position . They were rivals. Another general, a man who said he hadnt voted for 30 years when he was seeking the presidency. He had some positions in indiana territory, some other places. Had some history of accomplishments but not a great deal. And clay is expecting to get the its a time when the whigs think theyre going to win because america is in a depression. The whig policies look like the things to get you out of the depression. Whoever they put out there is going so have a very good shot at beating the incumbent, martin van buren. Clay wants it. This is an example where henry clay is not a good politician. Hes good in congress but hes not a good manager. Hes not a Good Campaign he doesnt have a campaign manager. He trusts his own instincts too much rather than trust the advice of other people and hes outmaneuvered by other people, like weed from new york backing harrison. Clay, who has a majority of the votes, enstead of saying were going to vote by number, were going to vote by state delegation. So however the state goes, the whole state goes to that person. That negated clay and it goes to harrison. Clay realized harrison was very important in the whig party. He wants to make peace, so thats why he offers clay these positions. Clay basically says ed he would rather stay where he is. He thinks he has more important things to do there and he doesnt want to be associated with the harrison presidency, really. Our next call is bill here in lexington, kentucky. Hi, bill. Hi. Calling from lexington. Im actually a teacher at henry clay high school, right up the street from where yall are sitting right now. Id like to ask whether the panelists think henry clays reputation as a compromiser hurt his chances of being president . And whether or not his losses as president , the threetime loser, actually made it possible for him to have a greater impact on the country through his long legislative career . Im going to ask all three of our guests to ask briefly. I think being a compromiser, yes. By 1840 it definitely hurts him. Hes unwilling to change his position on texas, so that upsets the southerners. He is trying to straddle the fence and i think it hurts him more than help him. Avery malone, the question, did his years as a compromiser ultimately hurt him in his quest for the presidency . What do you tell people here . Well, im unsure, but i do know being a compromiser is not universally popular during the present time when someone is seeking a position of power. People usually want you to take a strong stance. And your thoughts . Emerson said that a foolish consistency is a hobb goblin of small minds. Clay was not consistent all of his life. He at one time opposed the bank of the United States when he was a young man and favored one later on. He changed a little on different positions over time. He gave up the 1833 compromise. His enemies used that dpens him and said he wasnt consistent. He would compromise and trim his sails to anything as long as he was getting votes. I dont think that was the case. But he was willing to take a change and make a change and say that he had been wrong. Thats hard for a politician to do. And it sometimes cost you and it cost him. We had an earlier caller that wanted to referenced the treaty of agent. We talked about henry clays views of the british. Well see the gent code. What was the treaty of gents significance . Basically it ends the war of 1812, which americans are not winning at the time the delegates get over there. It gets worse because they thought the british would still be fighting napoleon and napoleon is out of the way by the time the treaty deliberations start. So the americans are not negotiating from a place of strength. In a sense they get about the best treaty they can. They do as well as as they can. Its one of our best delgss. You have john quincy adam, henry clay, three other people of importance there and it draws out takes a long time to come about. But given the fact they didnt have a lot to work with, they came with a strong treaty for america. It was hailed that way, too. It didnt hurt Andrew Jackson won the battle of new orleans after the treaty had been signed but the news had not reached america. It was almost like the two things came at the same time so it looked like we won the war, even though the treaty was signed before the battle had been fought. Avery, you have the gent jacket. Can you tell us about it and its significance . Yes. We have the gent jacket here. This is the diplomatic issue jacket henry clay would have been given to go to gent and negotiate peace. This jacket is very significant in that its one of of the few pieces in the collection we have that belong to henry clay. This jacket also served as an artifact during the time that the kentucky a m was here, a forerunner to uk. They used this jacket as an artifact then as well. Were going back to telephone calls. Next is from denver. Good evening. Good evening. My family and i grew up in milwaukee, wisconsin. In the 50s we all went to henry clay elementary school, so hes always been a source of fascination for me. I used to come to louisville and lexington on business, and im sorry i didnt realize you guys were there. I have a very simple question. This very bestselling biography on him called henry clay the essential american is very popular. Im wondering if youve read it and would it be a good choice for me to learn about henry clay or do you have Something Else to suggest . Thank you very much. We just happen to have the book here. Its one of several books available in the bookstore. They have a number of biographies. But im going to ask you for just starting out, what would be the book you would pick up about henry clay . Thats the most recent biography and it has a lot of strengths on the human side of henry clay. Gene heidler is the coauthor of that as well. Its the newest biography. If you want political emphasis, probably robert renenys book on henry clay is about the same size. If you want to start out on something smaller, theres Daniel Walker howe did a book which has a chapter on henry clay about the american whig party. Naets a good introduction on henry clay. If you want to compare clay and calhoun and webster, Merrill Peterson did a book back in the 70s. Its a very good balanced view on all three men and kinds kind of gives you a nice comparison to start with. Lindsey apple has just done a book on the family legacy of henry clay. Apples book is excellent and it also takes clays family beyond just his lifetime into the up almost to the present. What would you pick up for him or the period . For the for him, reminy and definitely the triumphrant because it brings in Daniel Webster and some other important figures at the time. For africanamericans it puts it in perspective about whats going on in the country and what the great debates are about. I have not read the newer version. Im waiting for jims book coming out. That will be the next one to that ill pick up to read. When and what is the next book . Working title is the great rejected henry clay and the american presidency. How about that. Perfect timing. Great rejected is a quote said about clay at the end of his life. He was the great rejected by the people but he stood out above them because of that. Im about to finish it this month or early next month and then i have to go through the publication process. About a year away, i hope. I thought we would get it before the contenders series was over. The current speaker of the house has many of his powers, i think, that he can look back to, the speakership of henry clay. He spoke about henry clay recently. Lets listen to speaker john boehner. Henry clay was the first, what ill call, strong speaker of the house. The real leader of the house. When our country was founded and the congress was put together, the first speakers over the first 20 years or so came out of the English Parliament system. And they were more of a referee. Didnt have any real power. But clay was the first real speaker of the house that had some power. And theres a lot of things you can say about roles of the speaker. Henry clay was clearly a very strong speaker. If you look at the period from 1820 to 1860, there was no one person in the United States more responsible for holding our union together than henry clay. By the way, that was from an event that was organized by the folks here at ashland where they invited all living speakers to come and talk about the role of speakers. It was held at transi will vein yeah university and its on our Video Library if you would like to watch it. Quite an interesting event they held here. To both of you, how did henry clay enhance the powers of the speaker . Through force of his personality. I think the no one wanted to debate him. Certainly he had the force to win the argument. So, i think that alone had great influence and power. I dont know if any other speaker would be comparative he also understood the power of committee assignments. The committees i was going to say, the committees basically, he understood that the speaker had the power to put the people he wanted on the committees. When something important he was known to be a fair man as speaker. That was very important. That both sides of the aisle respected him and respected his opinion. He was never over. Ridden in his rulings. He basically was fair in the makeup of the committees, but when he knew there was a certain issue coming up, you can see a slight inclination to put the friends to that issue that he wanted the issue to go a certain way. He understood very early that. He also changed the rules changed with his backing. It gave the speaker more power. Cut off debate, to limit debate, things loo he can that that allowed him to be a much more powerful figure than anybody before. Alicestyne is absolutely correct. It was his force and will that made it as important as anything else. Next telephone call is from raymond, in kalamazoo, michigan. Hi, raymond. Raymond, were going to move on. Lets move on to lonnie in chevy chase, maryland. Lincoln once referred to clay as his bow ideal of a statesman. I always believed the two men had never met. However, recently i came across a web page which purported to show a book, i believe it said that had been inscribed by clay to lincoln. Could the Panel Comment on this a bit . What is the thinking now . Did clay and lincoln ever meet . Louisville did he meet him well, we dont know, basically. There was one person who left a memoir about the turn of the right between the 19th and 20th century that said that that person had seen the two in lexington. Abraham lincoln married mary toddle lincoln. Mary todd, who was from lexington. And her family was very closely aligned with the clays, so her family knew the clays. Lincoln came to kentucky several times in connection with the family in the states that followed it. And and you certainly heard henry clay speak. Whether they met is unknown. But cant you imagine what a great time it would have been you have to think they tried to meet if nothing else. Had lincoln come to ashland and the two of them sit here in the parlor and clay would Say Something and mr. Lincoln would say, it reminds me of a story and henry clay would say, that reminds me of a story and they would go back and forth. But lincoln never said he met clay, so i think its very possibly he would have said that had he he did say clay was his ideal of a statesman. He did say 1860 when he was getting ready to write his inaugural. He took four things to write the inaugural with. One of those four items was henry clays speech in the compromise of the 1850s lincoln said his views of the views of henry clay are the views of Abraham Lincoln as well. Were going to take a call and then we must spent some time talking about the 1844 election. Lets listen to take question from charles in whittier, california. Hello. My question is this. Im a kentuckyian, born in the home of rosemary clooney. And i understand from the panel, your two guests, is that henry clay is considered the favorite son of kentucky. And although he and lincoln were whig members of the whig party, i dont understand how he could be the favorite son and not Abraham Lincoln, who, when he met Harriet Beecher stowe, he said, you are the little lady who started this great war. She never mentioned, nor is uncle tom, who i consider the greatest christian in american literature, neither are mentioned as being great in their time, and yet on the times in which they lived and even today their influence is greatly felt. Especially by many africanamericans who are historically informed. Why is not lincoln . That callers comments, can you respond, please . Well, Abraham Lincoln certainly kentucky, he may have started off being a friend to kentucky, but certainly when the emancipation proclamation is issued, he becomes a much hated figure here in kentucky. So, henry clay, who considered himself a werner but many southerners would choose him over Abraham Lincoln, who is certainly considered a traitor to the cause. You mention Harriet Beecher stowe, who is a popular kentucky figure. We read and study her, but lincoln and that relationship hes much more popular in the north and new england than he ever becomes in the south, particularly at the end of the civil war. Lincoln in 1860 running on the northern ticket received only, i think, five votes in his wifes home county. Even his inlaws didnt vote for him. He received Something Like 1,000 votes in the state of kentucky. To vote for lincoln in kentucky would have been like voting for a communist. He was a radical republican and he didnt have any support here. Kentucky at the beginning of the war wanted union and slavery. When he decides that the war by the middle of the war is going to be a war against slavery, finally, that turns many kentuckyians against slavery. The union at the beginning of the beginning of the war almost become. S proconfederate by the end of the car. So lincoln and his party are on the outs. Its only the 20th century kentucky starts to reclaim lincoln with the building of the memorial to his birthplace and Lincoln Commission that was created in the 21st century. So, kentucky has reclaimed lincoln belatedly, but he was on the wrong side basically for most kentuckyians after the war. How far from where we are physically is the lincoln birth place . Probably an hour and 15 minutes. It took henry clay a distance of 25 miles all day sometimes in the mud and the mire of those days. Thats why he was so much in favor of building better roads and canals through federal government aid. By the way, avery malone, during this discussion of lincoln, we have a brief picture of an artifact you have here in the collection which has an inscription to Abraham Lincoln. This is called the life and speeches of henry clay and theres an inscription in it that says, to Abraham Lincoln with constant regard to friendship, ashland, h. Clay, 1847. We believe this book was given to Abraham Lincoln from clay as sort of a gift to lincoln in exchange for what we believe lincoln would have given say condolence gift to henry clay after his son, henry jr. , was killed in the mexicanamerican war. But we dont know those were delivered personally . We dont. We dont know if they ever met. Theres no documentation to say they have. But we know at least that henry clay did know Abraham Lincoln. There must have been some type of a relationship based on this artifact. We have a little less than 20 minutes left in our 90 minutes on henry clay. The first of our 14 contenders in our look at American History. Lets take our next telephone call from louisville. This is rob watching us nearby. Hi, rob. Actually, its robin. Robin, im sorry. Hello, robin. Welcome to the conversation. I actually have three questions and ill try to go really fast and get out of the way and let your guests answered. Thank you. Professor turley mentioned clays connection to abolitionists early on. Im curious to know if he changed his mind or was it political posturing or a lie . The second question is another caller mentioned the two cass yous clays. Im curious whether its known whether henry clay or any of his household members or immediate household members had sdee send ants . Im curious to know if its known if any other prominent politicians share henry clays lineage . Now im out of your way. Thank you. Before you go, have you been here to the house . We lost her. She lives so close by. Appear ligsist and whether his position changed . I think it would be wrong to call henry clay an abolitionist. He was definitely not an abolitionist. He was for the idea of emancipation. And, no, he never changed his position on that. And as we discussed earlier, especially in the election of 1840, that it hurts him. The fact that he doesnt he tries to waffle and straddle the fence, but, no, he never backs away from his idea of emancipati emancipation. In 1799 clay speaks out publicly for the first time in kentucky against slavery in a letter to the local paper. 50 years later, when he does the same thing again, when kentuckys trying to adopt a new constitution and theyre hoping to get slavery abolished and it doesnt happen, he takes basically the same stance. Over a 50year period hes pretty consistent. The thing is over that 50 years, the world changed around him. His views are still the same. Her question about cassius clays, the two cassius clays . I know of no the question about whether or not africanamerican no, im not aware of that. So whether or not he had any desce descendants who were africanamerican . There was at least one story that appeared 40 years after henry clays death that a woman said she had been a mistress of henry clay. But i have found nothing to substantiate that story. And there are several henry clays in this area. She may have been mixed up with somebody else. Theres a list i mean, you can pretty much have compiled a list of the clay slaves and i didnt see her name there anywhere. I dont think that happened. Cassius clay probably not either as far as i know. No. He had an illegitimate offspring but that was in russia. That offspring showed up at his door one day at whitehall, the clay home here in kentucky. The shock of that caused his wife to eventually divorce henry cassius clay. The last question i just heard, aristocratic lineage. Do you remember her exact question . I think she said if anybody politicians have the same connection have any connection to clay as far as being related to clay. Im not sure that i know of anybody else. There was no Family Dynasty in politics . I dont think so. Let me move on because were going to run out of time. The 1844 election against james polk. This time clay was successful in securing the whig nomination. Everything ive read about it said it was one of the dirtiest campaigns conducted. What were the issues or was it real personal politics . Or both . Clay goes in as a favorite for a change. James polk went in hoping to be the Vice President and ends up being the president ial nominee of the democrats. The democrats are scrambling from behind. Clay had been campaigning for two years. Theres campaign biography everywhere, sheet music with clays name, all kinds of ribbons and buttons and medals you can do. So, the democrats basically coming from behind have to attack. And they attack clay pretty heavily on all those issues. 1844 election is a perfect storm of bad things happening to henry clay. He writes too many letters and says too many things, caused him to look like hes waffling on the issue of texas annexation, which was a big issue at the time. All these issues of drinking, gambling and carousing comes back against him, is used against clay. And i think its more the combination of things that defeat clay, the standard view is that the texas annexation issue, polk takes that and says we need to annex texas. Abolitionists and others in the north oppose that because they think it will bring war with mexico, which it does. Clay opposes annexation unless it happens on a peaceful basis. So clay is going against the National Mood. And i dont think that defeats him, though, because he wins some votes because of his stand on that as well as loses some votes. Its more theres a whole slew of issues. And then theres the issues of fraud and bad luck and things like that which plagued clay in every election he goes through as well. And you hear a lot about this being an example of the early example of the politics of personal destruction. Was this on both sides . Was henry clay a practitioner of those kind of politics . I think he was his own worst enemy. He certainly trusted the wrong people, i think, in the 1844 campaign. He doesnt listen to advisers. This is still a problem for him in 1844. He believes his own press, that he is the favorite and he doesnt see the challengers as serious, so hes not really campaigning. So, yeah, he shoots himself in the foot a couple times. Now, he opposed texas annexation peopredicting it wou lead to war with mexico. He was correct. The great irony is his on goes to fight in that war and what happened to his son . His son is killed in the war. His son had lost a wife a few years before and he was depressed for a period of time and its almost like he was going off to fight to forget as much as anything else. Hes wounded and he tells his men to leave him and retreat and they do and hes killed. The clay parts of that are sent back to clay from the killing of his son. It hits him very hard. And clay makes this antiwar speech. He basically says, i support the troops but i oppose the war. And he its a speech that many people consider a very courageous speech at the time because it was going against a lot of the National Mood in the south particularly, which was one of his constituent areas. Lets take another call. This is molly, bridgeton, new jersey. Hello. I was wondering if your panelists couldmolly. Caller hi. I was wondering if your panelists could talk a little about the relationship between John Quincy Adams and henry clay. Thank you. Well, molly, clay and adams were a very mismatched couple. Adams is the new england pure tan background. If you read his diary, hes critical of everybody, even himself. You can see him talking to himself, and hes critical. Hes well versed for the presidency, the son of a president. Theres a great passage in one of his diaries where adams is getting up at 4 00 in the morning and henry is coming in from a night of card playing. Adams says this is the debauchery of henry clay. You could turn it around and say it the other way around. Henry clay is a very different kind of person, and they constantly tweaked each other and talked to each other and didnt like each other in a lot of ways, but they respected each other. When clay makes john kwinquincy adams president in 1875, everyone thought they would break away from each other. But clay gains more respect for adams and adams gains more respect for clay. They were certainly not friends but they had Great Respect for each other through their lives. This is a good time to look at one of ashlands most prized possessions. Thats the washington goblet. Will you tell us about it . Yes, we do have the washington goblet here. Thf this was the item of great inspiration in henry clays home. You can see that its chipped or broken and this is how henry clay received it. He told how he received this from an elderly lady as a gift and it belonged to washington through the revolutionary war. He used this as an artifact in his house, and really used it to connect to the nationhood and as an object to venerate george washington. He felt washington, as the country did, was a great inspiration to our country and hoped to inspire patriotism to people who visited here at ashland. Were quickly running out of time here. Since we have you, let me ask you about henry clay and his wife and how often they lived here together. He had such a long political career requiring him to be in washington so frequently. Did his family move to washington with him, or did they remain behind most of the time . His family did go with henry clay to washington early on, but around the 1830s was really the last time that lucretia would go to him in washington. Lucretia had plenty on the farm to keep her busy. There were children and grandchildren here to occupy her time. Lucretia was never really one to enjoy the limelight, she wasnt heavily into fashion and attention, so she did enjoy the solis that ashland provided here. In the late part of henry clays life, the last half, i believe he was gone as much as he was home. Some have surmised that henry clay was addicted to travel, which is one thing we probably would all like to do more of, but henry was gone quite frequently to campaign, henry was gone working in washington, and on trips, for instance, to see his daughter in new orleans. This next call is from kentucky, town of paducah. This is gerald. Hi, gerald. Caller hi, how you doing . Im really enjoying the show. My last name is watkins and henry clay was my third cousin. His sister was a granddaughter to my grandpa gerald watkins. So im proud of that connection. It seems like when he won the nomination, it seems like the timing was really not good for his candidacy, they seemed doomed. Do you believe there was a president ial election during his time of prominence that would have been better timing that he could have won the presidency . Yeah, i think he could win in 1840 pretty reasonably, and in 1848, Zachary Taylor is going to be the nominee and clay particularly opposed Zachary Taylor because taylor had done nothing other than be a general. He had nothing in his background, and he had never even voted before he ran for president. So clay very reluctantly tries to get the nomination in 1848 and fails. If clay had gotten that nomination, i think they would have won, too. The democrats were divided that year. Clay was quoted as saying the years he could get the nomination, his friends are basically deserting him because john critten was a backer of Zachary Taylor, and clay saw that as a betrayal of all the things he had done. Since we fastforwarded to 1848, lets move ahead to 1850, henry clays last big effort on Public Policy and the compromise of 1850. What was that compromise all about . Set the stage about what was happening in this country. 1850, this decision about the expansion of how slave states, whether they come in as free or slave holding, the idea of strengthening the slave law, of course, becomes one of the breaking points, the idea of california, whether or not so the decision ends up being california can make its own decision about whether or not slaves can be held in the state. Missouri comes in new mexico and arizona. New mexico and arizona, exactly. So, again, we are now truly into the manifesting of where the United States reaches from coast to coast. For africanamericans, the strengthening of the fugitive slave law becomes a major issue in american politics leading up to the civil war. We only have about four minutes left, but on the compromise of 1850, henry clay was not successful. He was reaching the end of his strength and health. How did it all turn out . I think it says something about henry clay that if 1849 he comes back to from the defeat in 1844. Hes not going to run for president anymore, but he comes out of retirement in an effort to save the country one more time in 1850 with a compromise. In missouri he had broken all the pieces up and got it passed in 1851. Clay goes off to rhode island to take the waters, and the bill does pass piecemeal under stephen douglas. Clay thought, and was roundly supported on this, that this would bring peace in his lifetime. It did, because he dies two years later, but the civil war begins with part of that compromise. And he was buried where . In the lexington cemetary. His funeral was really quite an event, a thousandmile train cortage. Tell me about it. His trusted servant, charles, is still at his side until the very end with the funeral. Hes viewed. People come from all over. The trains are coming in and thousands of people in lexington for the funeral. So its national news. I think the thing about that monument, those monuments to clay, i think hes got more images in the capitol, the nations capitol than any other individual. Atlantic magazine in 2006 put him as one of the 100 most influential americans of all time. Henry clay kept a divided nation together. The nation is still one nation, united, still a working democracy, and its still trying very hard to live up to the spirit of henry clay. We have time for a very quick call from bowling green, kentucky. Do you have a quick question for us . Caller yes, my name is ann, and my question is, why do you suppose henry clay was not interested in a womans perspective on slavery . The reason i ask that question, european Victorian Woman by the name of Harriet Martineau had traveled to america, to kentucky, in 1835 and she visited carla, im going to interrupt you. We understand the history and we have very little time. Martineau was sent by britain, so thats enough for clay not to like her. I would certainly say just to southern principles about womens place. He loved women. Had women been able to vote, henry clay would have been president many times. The women of america liked henry clay. Despite the rumors about him, the women liked henry clay, would have voted for him. Martineau came to ashland, stayed here. She liked henry clay when she got here even though she had problems with henry clay, so that was part of the ration of america in his time, too. The contradictions and the controversy around henry clay. We heard views about why henry clay was important for our country. Would you close with yours . He was important for the country because he polarized and made america make a decision on sl slavery. His 1850 compromise which did pass, africanamericans fled to canada, it increased the Public Awareness of slavery in america. That was his major contribution, i think. We just skimmed the surface of a 49year political career for henry clay, our first of 14 contenders men who didnt achieve their quest for the presidency but changed American History. Im going to say thanks to our guests, alistair and jim and avery here. The Henry Clay Foundation for both preserving ashland and for sharing it around the country tonight. Debor deborah, who was executive director. Outstanding thanks to our crew who helped put this together, and the volunteers at ashland. And a special thank you to cspans Board Chairman who traveled all the way from kentucky to be with us, history buffs that they are, as we kick off the first of our contenders series. Thank you for being with us tonight as we learn more about the life of henry clay. Announcer weeknights this month on American History tv were featuring the contenders. Our series looks at 14 president ial candidates who lost the election but had a lasting effect on u. S. Politics. Tonight we feature former speaker of the house george james blaine of maine. He was the republican nominee for president in 1884. Watch tonight beginning at 8 00 eastern. Enjoy American History tv. This week and every weekend on cspan3. Every saturday at 8 00 p. M. Eastern on American History tv at cspan3, go to a different classroom and hear about topics on civil rights and the u. S. President s. To 9 11. Thanks for your patience. Reporter with most classrooms closed due to the impact of the coronavirus, watch professors transfer teaching to a virtual setting to engage with their students. Gorbachev did most of the work to change the soviet union, but reagan met him halfway. Reagan encouraged him, reagan supported him. Freedom of the press, i should mention madison called it freedom of the use of the press, and it is indeed freedom to print things and publish things. It is not a freedom for what we refer to now institutionally as the press. Announcer on cspan3 every saturday at 8 00 p. M. Eastern. Lectures in history is also available as a podcast. Find it where you listen to podcasts. Youre watching American History 1850. Mr. Brands is a history professor at university of texas in austin. The gerald ford and the halestine of American History is cohosts. Its about 90 minutes. Were partnering with the halestine center, and as you know, they have an